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I Need Peace
Posted by K-J on 11/12/2007 6:10:17 AM
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This is a bulletin my friend put up on myspace.
"Recently i've been listening to a few preachers talking about God giving us a choice.
God gave us the choice to follow him or to go our own way.
When you look a little deeper in it, an unusual truth seems to sprout.
An Anonymous Blogger: "it really clear, You either choose to follow God, or you don't. But if you don't, be prepared for the outcome."
What is this outcome?
This outcome is eternal damnation. Infinity without the presence of God.
"Hell" "The fiery pits of hell"
We're lead to believe that the reason unbelievers must burn in hell is because of their sins. Which distances themselves from God.
I was talking to some one a while ago who said that he didn't want to become a christian because he didn't like the idea of heaven. he likes the idea of finally being able to rest, to not have a conscience.
He's a really good person, and i respect him a lot. Yet, because he doesn't want to go to heaven, does this mean God will send him to the pits of hell?
And if he does get into heaven, he may not even enjoy it...
There's one thing i definitely know, without a doubt. Christianity is certainly not for everybody.
so knowing this, what choice does God give us? He gives us none.
effectively, he's almost terrorising us.
even emotionally blackmailing us.
" I am love, my love is endless, unconditional, unfailing. I want you to love me as i love you always. if you don't, you will burn in hell because i love you so much."
My gut actaully churns to think that God would send my friend to hell simply because he'd prefer to die and that be it, than there be a heaven.
perhaps God may give him that choice? maybe God will grant him nothingness after he dies...who knows?"
This is my reply:
"I want to die and there be nothing, to live forever seems to be an exhausting concept.
Also, if i was in heaven I think I would forever feel for anyone who wasnt. Or would God take that away from me, my conscience and feelings. I wouldnt want to forget other people had existed.
I would like nothingness then my mind could be at peace!
I wish there was someone who could persuade me otherwise, but the whole concept of life, God, heaven and hell seems to be a flawed concept when the idea of an eternal place of heaven doesnt seem so appealing.
Is there any arguement for the other side??
How can this be flipped? Can it? It seems to be a vicious cycle that can be argued in circles forever. "
My mind is exhausted, confused, frustrated.
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Thank you so much for your question. I'm glad you decided to post it here. I will be heading out on the road shortly, but before I do, I wanted to give you two articles to read. If you search for "Hell" from the main page, it will be the top two articles. I don't want to just say to you, "here, go read some articles" but I do think it's a good place to start until I have a chance to get back to you.
When I get back to my computer, I'll post some specific answers to your questions and your friends questions. I do think there are answers to be had, and I hope you will find them fulfilling and comforting as I do. I'll post again soon.
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arsindelve-
11/12/2007 6:59:17 AM
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I won't address any of the things that your friend wrote because I know arsindelve is planning on doing that, but I would like to talk about some of the things you wrote about heaven.
It's interesting that you and I have the exact opposite fear of the afterlife. For me, the worst thing I could imagine is that when I die, I cease to exist. That is the scariest thing in the world for me!
As far as heaven goes, I think part of them problem is that over the years, in books and movies, people have tried to imagine what heaven is like. No matter how honest their attempts were, they are lacking and miss the target. We get these ideas in our head about clouds and harps (which seems boring) or the idea of being able to do ANYthing we want (which would get boring after a while), having to be good all the time for fear of getting booted out, or worrying about relationships we had on earth. I don't know anything about what heaven is actually like (and neither does anyone else) but I do know that it is PERFECT. I don't know how it can be perfect for me and perfect for you when we have different tastes, but it is. No matter what you imagine, there will be some flaw with it. But heaven is flawless. In this way, I suppose, it's beyond our understanding and we will have to see when we get there. But I am not worried for one second, I trust in God that is will be everything he promised.
If you start to try to imagine what heaven is really like, you are guaranteed to come up with something less than the real thing, and you will not want the thing you imagine it to be. The best thing you can do is just focus on the fact that it is amazing and perfect and allow yourself to be pleasantly surprised when you get there.
The aspect of eternality bothers a lot of people, but I think there is a misunderstanding. I don't think that after we die, we will be eternal in the sense of time. Here's what I mean. Right now, a hundred years seems like forever. A thousand years would be almost too much to imagine, and a million years certainly would be beyond my grasp. How could anyone want to live for an infinite number of years? That is scary! Well, that's not what eternal means, I don't think. In the afterlife, there will not be time - we will exist outside of time as God does. When we say God is eternal, we don't mean that he has lived for infinite years and will live infinite more. We mean that time has no meaning for him, he is outside of it, and we will be too. Again, I have no idea what this would be like, or how it will be different (and less boring) than living an infinite amount time, but I trust that it will be wonderful.
I hope this helps!
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tom-
11/13/2007 9:44:49 AM
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Hiya, Gareth here, the Myspace poster.
I think sometimes the reason Christians cling so dearly to their belief is solely because of the knowledge that they'll not die. it will keep them going, it's their one chance to not disappear, to be forgotten.
So taking it away is a very painful thing, and a very hard thing to do.
When i first started to question christianity serverely i was utterly gut wrenched at the possiblility of there being no God. Seriously, you can't pull away from it. But when i did, my fear of death completely disappeared.
Whether that's the same for other people, i don't know.
In light of this then, in my eyes, i don't fear God's judgement. because it's simple doesn't exist to me.
I want to continue helping people, i want to love and care for loved ones, for the needy. I'm just denying God.
If, for instance, i did die and God existed, i'm not sure i'd want to spend time with him.
Now, i know i can't imagine the fullness of heaven being on earth and only having a certain ammount of brain power, but does that deny me the right to imagine heaven at all?
You may trust God until the day you die, but i don't.
it's a matter of opinion, not of fact.
sorry if i'm sounding a little heated, forgive me! But it's something i feel strongly about.
until the day i see God with my own eyes, i shan't be convinced.
God may be too much for my body to take, i may be engulfed by his glory, or burnt in his majesty.
i'd prefer that to a lifetime of insecurity,
I may not be able to see him because i'm not 'intouch' with God which may be the reason i can't hear him.
But my belief is on the line.
it's either he shows up, or i don't believe. It's a very simple request.
I am straight with God, i expect him to be straight with me.
A friend doesn't say, "Trust in me." and then never talk to you for months maybe years at a time...
I don't care if it's "god working in his own time" if he's my friend and i talk, i want him to reply. No excuses, no saying i'm not holy enough, a friend doesnt turn his back in a time of need. God seems to frequently when we 'sin'
etc etc. xxx
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anonymous-
11/13/2007 9:15:53 PM
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Welcome, Gareth. I'm really glad you stopped by the website. First off, please don't feel you need to apologize for being passionate (or heated as you say). These are serious issues which we should be passionate about. I really appreciate your honesty, and I hope you will come back and continue to share your objections and concerns.
I'm not your typical Christian, and I try very hard not to be the kind of "super-religious" person who goes around telling people they need to believe or they're going to hell. I was not a Christian for much of my life and I know how that kind of nonsense turns people off, so let me just share how I came to believe in Jesus, and I hope you'll continue to let me answer some of your questions.
I didn't come to believe in Jesus directly. If you approach it that way, it sounds too absurd - a man lived 2,000 years ago, was raised from the dead and I need to worship him or else! No, too much to deal with head on. Instead, I realized there are certain facts that demand an explanation. For example, I have to account for how life came to exist in this universe? Chance? Maybe, but honestly the most reasonable answer is a creator. I have to account for the "moral law" which for the most part, compels people to want to do good (even though we often fail to do the good we are compelled to do). A benevolent God is the most reasonable explanation for this. I have to account for the fact that over a billion people believe in Jesus. Now, the fact that people believe in a thing does not make it true, but it does make that thing worthy of my investigation. And so, when I investigate the evidence for Jesus, I find it extremely compelling. Finally, I have to account for the fact that almost everyone, since the dawn of time, has felt drawn to a belief in God. Many people reject this or ignore it, but I think everyone feels it. I believe that you feel it on some level, or you want not have posted here. Forgive me for being so bold, but if you believed 100 that God does not exist, you would not have come to this site. Instead, you would not have even bothered wasting your time.
So, when I consider all these things that demand an explanation, I find that God is the most reasonable explanation. It makes sense to me. Sure, there are lots of parts that don't make sense, but I don't throw out the entire concept of God just because some parts don't add up.
I really hope some of what I've written is helpful. Please come back and let me know if there is anything else I can do to help convince you, if not that God exists, then at least that it's worth spending time investigating. I hope you will let us help you with that investigation.
Last but not least, may I pray for you? I will pray that God will reveal Himself to you just as you've asked. I could never promise that he will, but sometimes he surprises us. I will ask him to do just that. Have you also asked him? He would love to hear it from you.
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arsindelve-
11/13/2007 10:03:07 PM
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dear gareth:
i am so touched by your coments. i really would like to share my journey with the lord! praise god for jesus christ since his death-no other sacrifice to reach our father god-take it in the name of jesus-because god the father said whatever you ask in the name of jesus-you will receive! i have had every prayer answered in this source! wait i say-wait upon the lord! be still & know that i am god! GOD WANTS US TO TRUST HIM! YOU WILL FEEL THE PEACE THAT GIVES YOU THE STRENGTH TO WAIT! IT IS SO POWERFUL TO KNOW THAT GOD GIVES YOU THE RIGHT THING-NOT NECESSARILY WHAT YOU ASK FOR! THAT IS BECAUSE HE KNOWS THE BEGINNING & THE END OF ALL THINGS! I LOVE YOU IN CHRIST! I WILL PRAY FOR YOU! ASK THE LORD IN YOUR OWN WORDS TO REVEAL TO YOU WHAT FAITH IS! BYE NOW, CHRIS
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anonymous-
3/25/2008 12:39:20 PM
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Gareth,
You said;
"But my belief is on the line.
it's either he shows up, or i don't believe. It's a very simple request.
I am straight with God, i expect him to be straight with me..."
It is true. Your belief is on the line. So is your eternal destiny.
God did show up. He came as Jesus. He was sinless, yet carried the sins of the world upon Himself, and He died in our place on the cross. Three days later, He rose again! Do you have a Bible? It is the Word of God. God has been speaking to you. I pray that you will have ears to hear what He is saying. Please read the Chapters of John, and also of Romans, in the Bible.
I pray for your understanding and your salvation.
May you also come to know God's love.
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Ignited~Faith-
4/2/2008 8:35:14 AM
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Don't forget that our forum
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