Hi again ... I made spelling mistakes in the last post and the edit facilities threw a wobbly. Sorry. Here it is again. Hi. The bible tells us that God is the same yesterday, today and forever. How come there's an old testament then? The God that once told people to kill innocents, slaughter children and gouge out eyes, changes his mind and tells people to love their enemy and turn the other cheek. Is he going to change his mind further down the road and dump me? Dave

2/13/2008 4:02:01 PM by davec, Member of Delve into Jesus since 10/9/2007

Welcome back, Dave. We've been missing you and wondering what you're up to. It's good to hear from you again. One of the first questions you ever asked was about the brutality in the Old Testament, and that prompted me to write an article. You can find it here. I hope you can see that the contrast is not as drastic as it seems and the God of the NT is indeed the same as the God of the OT. ...Which leads me to a bigger point: Why do you assume God has changed just because His revelation to us has evolved over the years? To me, that suggests that we have changed more than God has. As we've evolved (or more specifically, as the Jews evolved), then God revealed different aspects of His nature and His plan to correspond with what they were ready to hear or needed to hear. (That is to say, different sides of a single nature, not a new or different nature). But He has never changed, nor has His plan changed - He has just shown different aspects of it over time. I hope this helps! I look forward to your reply.

2/13/2008 5:22:46 PM by Michael Lane, Executive Director, Delve Christian Ministries

LOL. I had this same question many years ago. Then, God spoke directly to me and told me He changed not. As soon as I heard the words, I turned and there was a snake behind me. In my kitchen!! This happened before I was part of His family. Later, after salvation, I was lead to see that God does not change. He still wants the same thing He wanted from the onset, to love us and have us love Him. We, being selfish and self centered, which is the true "fallen state", couldn't get it right. So, He, in His divine wisdom and compassion, sent His Son, Jesus, to show us how to do it. Jesus was the example of how the Father wants us to love, trust and obey Him. Our goal is to allow the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us. Changing us more each day until we are the image of Jesus. (That's being born again) We pray to communicate with God. We show Him our love when we obey His word. We show the world His love when we love each other. God, the Father has appealed to us on our "fallen" level. Since we are so self-centered, He said, "forgive others as I have forgiven you." And "love others as I have loved you." God did not change from the OT. He still required "blood of the unblemished lamb". Thus, He sent His Only to be the "unblemished lamb". He reconcilled with us. Since we couldn't do it. And even in our "saved" status, we are still unworthy. We yet are self-centered. We still debate Him and His word, hoping to get the understanding that suits us. He said what He said and He meant what He said and all those folks who died in the OT have had the chance to be saved when Jesus died on the cross. God is so awesomeand He loves us so much. He made peace with Himself for us. He is not a God of confusion, but of peace.

2/13/2008 6:47:32 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

As for God "dumping you", keep questioning His character and find out if He dumps you. :)

2/13/2008 6:49:16 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

Thanks for your replies ... arsindelve, you've got a better memory than me! Just goes to show how my unresolved questions come back to haunt me. Will I ever escape?! I don't get the bit about the Jews evolving. Either the bible is God's word or it isn't. Are you saying stacks of things in the bible might not be exactly true because the Jews were evolving in their concept of God? If the Jews didn't really understand God then, surely, ALL the old testament has to be taken with a pinch of salt. Did people in the NEW testament REALLY understand God then .. or were they evolving too? How much for THEIR interpretation of him? There appears to be more shifting sand than solid rock if that's how we view the bible. Oh ... and a part of God's nature IS to gouge out eyes and kill innocent children is it? Dave

2/14/2008 3:41:55 AM by davec, Member of Delve into Jesus since 10/9/2007

Did you have a chance to read the article? That is proabably the best I can hope to do in explaning what seems like "brutality" in the OT. When I wrote the article, the light went off in my head when I realized that we all die eventually and in a very real way, God is the one who decides how and when we die. If he takes us one at a time in middle age, or all at once in youth, what's the difference? If you want to get mad that God kills anyone, I understand that, but I don't think it makes sense to get upset at how or when He does it, especially when He is working to preserve the Jewish people from being wiped out. The "evolving" is likely a little easier to explain. There are two schools of thought on how to explain the "evoloution" of God's revelation over time. I am no expert on either of these, but I can present the basics and if you're interested, help you find some resources. The first theory is called "Covenant Theology". The basic idea here is that God made covenants with man, and man always broke those covenants, so in His mercy, God made new ones each time. This explains why the Bible seems to evolve. Each change represents a new covenant. The drastic change between the Old and New Testament can be explained that we are now in the Covenant of Grace, whereas the OT was governed by a Covenant of Works. The second theory is called "Dispensational Theology". If I understand it correctly, this theology claims that God revealed, over time, whatever the Jews were able to handle. Eventually, once they got a grip on one aspect of God's nature, he would reveal a little more. Eventually, through the arrival of Jesus Christ, everthing that we needed to know about God for the purpose of salvation and living according to His will was fully revealed. The best analogy I can come up with (since I LOVE analogies) is that of a father explaining his job to a daughter. When she is very young, he might say that he fixes people who are sick. As she grows, he tells her he is a doctor. Eventually, he can explain that he is a cardiologist. The father's job does not change, but he tells her only what she is ready to understand for her age and maturity. No matter which theory you buy, you can see that God does not (and did not) change. If anything, man changes and so God adapts his revelation accordingly. What amazes most scholars, no matter which theology they prefer, is actually how consistent and coherent the Bible really is. Even very early on, there are glimpses and hints of what's to come. Now that we know how it ends, we can go back to the beginning and see how much the OT anticipates and predicts Christ. Taken together, the books of the Bible form a very complete and rich picture of who God is and what he desires from us. Even atheist scholars marvel at how much consistency there is in a book written by dozen of people of thousands of years. We know that it is because God worked through each and every author.

2/15/2008 8:37:25 AM by Michael Lane, Executive Director, Delve Christian Ministries

My question is if we believe and trust God, do we need to "lean towards our own understanding? Theology is the study of religon, not God. We can not know God until we have a personal relationship with Him. This is why He has so many names. By His words, He is, "I AM". If I AM is Lord, Savior, Eye-gouger, Baby killer, Love, Merciful One, or Father, is dependent on your relationship to Him. He does NOT have to justify His behavior to us.

2/15/2008 10:01:10 AM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

Mrs Piggy, I think this is an area where we have disagreed in the past, and it is because I so respect everything you've done and said that I really want to explain why I feel it is necessary to provide explanations to honest, seeking questions such as these. In my own personal walk with God, I have the luxury of placing all my faith and trust in Him when I don't understand. But as a someone in ministry whose primary goal is to lead others to Christ, I do not have that luxury. I have to defend and explain Christ to those who have questions. It is a rightous thing to do, and people have been doing this since Paul and Peter in the books of Acts. When someone such as Dave or others have difficult questions, it will do no good to tell them to have faith, because it is their very faith itself which is in jeopardy. For someone who does not even believe there is a God, telling them to have faith is simply not enough. We are separated by a chasm of faith and belief, and I cannot help to save them by calling out to them to trust me and cross to my side. No, I love that person so much, and I want them to be saved so deeply, that I have to reach across the divide and appeal to them where they stand. I have to walk back across with them. By providing solid, logical, biblically-based answers to questions such as these, I hope and pray that faith will be strengthened to the point that when future doubts or questions emerge, faith will be sufficient to handle them.

2/15/2008 10:18:36 AM by Michael Lane, Executive Director, Delve Christian Ministries

Arsin, I understand that you feel you have an obligation to explain things to others. My only obligation is to trust God as His word says. Do yo thang, man. I will keep my opinion, even Bible-based ones, to myself.

2/15/2008 11:50:32 AM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

Surely we are not asked to disengage brain when becoming a Christian? Obviously our brains are a tad limited, but they ARE there!

2/15/2008 12:53:29 PM by davec, Member of Delve into Jesus since 10/9/2007

Mrs Piggy, Keeping your opinions to yourself is the LAST thing I want you to do. Your contributions to this site have been nothing less than amazing. The reason I wrote what I did was because I sometimes wonder if you are sitting around, shaking your head and wondering, "Why doesn't Arsin just have faith?! Why does he worry about such things?" I hope I have not hurt your feeling or offended you in any way - I will be devastated if I have - and sincerely ask your forgiveness.

2/15/2008 5:06:16 PM by Michael Lane, Executive Director, Delve Christian Ministries

Dave, I don't think it's about turning your brain off, I think it's about turning off pride and ego. What I mean is that we live in a society where science has taught us to expect and demand explanations for everything. From that, we have become (as a people), arrogant in that we think we deserve explanations for everything. We don't accept that there are things which we cannot know or should not know. That makes it difficult to trust God, since He will not reveal everything. Some things are too complex for our finite mind, while some would be too hard to accept, and others may be on a need-to-know basis. Once we have accepted Christ, we still need our minds to analyze what's going on around us and to enable us to make wise, God-centered decisions, but at the same time, we need the humility to still accept, love and worship God even when there are things that are hard or even impossible to understand.

2/15/2008 5:13:33 PM by Michael Lane, Executive Director, Delve Christian Ministries

Arsin, There is no need to feel devasted or speak of forgiveness. Elsewhere on this site, I admitted to holding a science degree. I also hold a law degree. So, I am the queen of questions. And very opinionated. I really enjoy this site. I visit everyday. I have read almost everything available. Inquisitive mind, you think? Last month, I was given a form at church. There was a section that stated, "If you could ask God one question, what would it be?" I left it blank. Years ago, I asked God a "why" question and He told me "none of your business." I have not asked again. I just trust Him that it's all working together for the good of those who love Him and are called to His purpose. (Romans 8:28) Reading is my passion. I read my Bible everyday. Research is my nature. I spend hours looking up verses that relate to the topics on this site. Don't let offense enter your head. It's not about you and it's not about me. It's about Him. God led me to this site for His purpose. We often forget that we are knitted together through Christ Jesus. Offense is the worsts of sins, because it's a weapon of satan used to tear us apart. I love you in Christ Jesus, Arsin. You are my brother and you could never offend me. And I thank you for obeying the Holy Spirit in creating this site. May God continue to bless you in all you set your hand to.

2/15/2008 6:40:19 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

davec! I remember you; you are the guy who got me interested in this website back in Dec ' 07. At that time, I did not get out of my head much, so when I stumbled into this site, I was surprised to see you and others were writing about some of the same dilemmas which were puzzling me. I hope you don't find it cruel of God to allow me to hit upon some clarification while thinking about some of the topics with which you were struggling. I think that is how God and these discussions can work. I do agree with your comment on how we were given brains that are naturally inclined to consider the attributes and actions of God. I've been interested, on and off, in all the odd happenings recorded in the OT since I was 13 years-old. My confusion on that stuff had provided some level of excuse for walking away from Christianity, while willingly remaining on an occasionally yanked tether. Back then I soothed myself with thoughts about how God must have a long range plan of evenhandedness to make it up to all the OT unfortunates who seemingly ended with a brutal and unjustified fate. A few years later, and I have no better explanation, except a deeper appreciation of the transitory nature of human life. And, while still questioing much, I have finally come to the point at which I'm content not to question everything. Believe it or not, that feels better than demanding to know - that surpised me. However, I realize one can't help stop questioning until you get some answers. I hope you, and I, find answers and faith. As far as God being the same yesterday, today and forever; I have heard the explanation describing how God made a covenant with Israel which was all about love for His people. Non-covenant peoples (due to their lifestyles) represented the destructive force of sin, which would tempt and ultimately destroy the Israelites. So, in loving concern for the survival of the Israelites, they were instructed to annihilate other groups of people. Under the new covenant, all people are lovingly invited to be God's people. I believe all those ancients who had brief, albeit cruel-fated existences will be given the opportunity to get in on this action. So, I see room to believe God's attribute of love has remained constant. There has always been unfathomably grotesque dealings from the beginning of time until tomorrow's headlines. As has been previously stated, since we've read the end of the book, we can see reason to believe that God's love will always remain constant, and there will be an end to the violence. I can understand how not all active brains will come to the same conclusions and it will always be a topic worth consideration. I think it is touching you are concerned about God dumping you. As far as I can see it has always been man doing the dumping. For all of us who've been in on the dumping, or close to it, do you think we've been given plentiful chances to change our minds?

2/15/2008 7:55:25 PM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

I just heard this minister say, "God said He does not change, but His method can change." I thought this was worth sharing as we know it to be true. Jesus healed many blind people, but He didn't heal them all the same way.

2/22/2008 1:18:30 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

It was mentioned earlier that Theology was the study of religion, I think Theology means the Study of God, if I remember correctly. Theos is God and ology the study of. Just because it's a human current term, does not mean that scriptures does not speak of learning about God. The only thing we have to be careful is that the Theology we study is biblically based, which seems to be the case from most of the posts. Thank you for your work in this Arsin & Dave.

3/8/2008 3:46:02 PM by Iliana, Member of Delve into Jesus since 3/7/2008

Hey, has anyone made a video for youtube.com. I was turned on to this website a while back, and I've been thinking about what kind of thought provoking subject I can talk about. Any ideas? there are a lot of Muslims that visit the site, so I've heard. Anyways, just an idea to through out there.

3/8/2008 3:56:02 PM by Iliana, Member of Delve into Jesus since 3/7/2008

Okay, theology is suppose to be the study of the nature of God (which we know to be love), but in actuality is the study of religion. Or as the dictionary puts it: The study of the nature of God and religious truth; rational inquiry into religious questions, esp. those posed by an organized religious community. From The American Heritage Dictionary, 2nd college ed. So, I guess this discussion could be classified as "theology". We are after all a "community" of Christians attempting to "rationally" question God's character (nature). All I know is Jesus said, "You have not chosen me. I have chosen you." John 15:16 This leads me to think that we should be discussing why He chose us? Afterall, didn't pharaoh ask, "Who is the Lord?" (Ex. 5:2)

3/8/2008 8:30:10 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

Iliana, I've had friends, Christian friends, email me Youtube links. I find them uplifting and inspiring. As the servant said to Jonathan, I say to you, "Do ALL that is in your heart."

3/8/2008 8:36:08 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

Mrspiggy, I appreciate your response. When I explained the word Theology, I was explaining what the actual word means, not a definition. Theo means God and ology is the study of. One of the natures, I would rather call it the character of God is Love, but there's a lot more, there's the God of Wrath, Wisdom, Grace, Judge, Sovereign, and more. To dimiss Theology as just study of religion is a diservice to the Christian community. I find christian churches in particular are either all the way on one side, me and Jesus, individualistic, and have exciting worship, but no depth to their worship or any change in their lives. Then there's the other extreme that are all intellectual and no reality in worship or living. There has to be a middle ground where both can exist where the truths of scripture are reflected in the songs of worship that we sing, as well as studying God and scriptures and putting feet to the Word of God in our actions. Not that I have attained this, I am far away from this as a total way of life, but I'm better than I used to be by God's Grace. It's interesting that you quoted the scripture of God chosing us. This can really open a can of worms for many believers. In God chosing us, is our salvation, sanctification, and glorification dependent on us or God? We've been going through the book of Exodus in our church and God did tell Abraham that the Israelites would be in captivity for 400 years, I think back in Genesis, about 13 or 15th chapter. I can't remember. Wow, when I was reading that, and realized that God allows the hardships in our lives, then I came to the realization that I need to work on submitting to God's will, which could be hardships, for whatever His purpose may be. I don't think I am to know everything about the future, except because I have fear, and lack of trust in God's character of His goodness, and I want to be God and know everything, will it bother me that I'm in a particular hardship. But, if I know for sure that my God is Sovereign, Trustworthy, and Faithful to me, then I can go through anything, because He's not after my happiness as we tend to think (prosperity gospel), but after my Holiness, which will make me more like Christ.

3/9/2008 10:17:43 PM by Iliana, Member of Delve into Jesus since 3/7/2008

As far as the youtube videos, I agree, that I have found some that are uplifting as well. My heart is deceitful above all things, so i would first bathe it in prayer to see what God wants. My sinful nature may want to do it just to be known and popular, which I am checking the motivations of my heart to do it and I want to do something that would be edifying and thought provoking to non believers. Most people, I find, don't think anything about God or Death. How many people around us are going straight to Hell and we just don't open our mouths. I know that God's Sovereignty cannot be thwarted, but what about my responsiblity with what I do with the Truth of the Scriptures. Has anyone had a good witnessing experience recently. I know that God puts people in my path that are very intellectual, so it's not a one time, share the gospel, but I find, I have to build a relationship over time, to be able to share God.

3/9/2008 10:28:11 PM by Iliana, Member of Delve into Jesus since 3/7/2008

We are sanctified, purified and justfied through Christ on the cross, through His blood.(Romans 5:9) Those He called He also justfied and glorified. (Romans 8:30) We are justified through faith. (Romans 3:28 & Galatians 3:24) It is He who has made us and not we ourselves. If we could do it, there would have been no need for Jesus to come. We are made rigtheous through our faith in God. He gave each of us a measure of faith (Romans 12:3). It is up to us to grow the faith. We know that faith comes by hearing the word of God. Ideally, we should hear (read) the word and meditate on it day and night. The word (seed) will grow in our hearts and bring forth a harvest (more faith). And we know that without faith it is impossible to please God. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith (Hebrews 12:2) Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons.(Hebrews 12:7) As for "opening a can of worms", so sorry. Truth does not change. Intellectual people? Okay. Then you have to be intellectual also in order to win them to Christ. This is noble. But remember: "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from th Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor. 2:14) As for witnessing, I find it eaier to "live" the message and let those without ask me the secret to my peace and joy.

3/10/2008 10:06:59 AM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

What if jesus' Divinity was completely fabricated.

3/17/2008 3:50:20 PM by JesusWazzaZombi, Member of Delve into Jesus since 3/17/2008

Excellent question; but, what if His divinity is genuine. Both of these angles should be investigated by all. Religion can be the opiate of the masses. However, all belief systems have the potential to be drugging. As long as one contemplates the tough questions and honestly searches for the answers, one won't be smoking off the zombie pipe. Forgive the cliché, but some of us experience Jesus as the medicine, rather than the opiate, for all that is wrong in our lives and in the world. If you could prove to me that He was not divine, I would be greatly disappointed. However, I can't say I would have any regrets - Jesus has not asked me to do anything that has not worked out well for me. I don't think I would suddenly say, laden with expletives, that Jesus thing was just a myth; I need to get back to all the x, y, z Ive been missing. For me, x would feel great in the moment but then would have ugly complications, y is bound to really hurt those around me and z is just trouble that has lost all its appeal to me. If the benefits of following Jesus were only tied to this world, they would be more than enough for me. Jesus is an invitation to a personal relationship that changes your life. I could not deny my life has changed even if you could show me Jesus is not divine. Real change seems unlikely if one mindlessly shoots up the opiate of mass deception. If Jesus is divine, and one doesnt investigate this possibility, there is a lot of good to be missed. I am excited about all your questions posted here, and I enjoy the way you express your self. It is helpful for me to be challenged as to why I believe as I do. There is powerful potential in the questioning and in the responding. I hope you continue to challenge me and yourself!

3/18/2008 7:57:58 AM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

JesusWazzaZombi Truth cannot be fabricated. It either is or then it would be untruth (a lie). By using the word fabricated, you are insinuating that Jesus divinity can be a lie. Was George Washington our first president? You will say yes, of course, because you have historical evidence and eyewitnesses to the fact. Same thing with Jesus, you have historical evidence that he existed and eyewitnesses to what He said. You will have to conclude after you read what He said about Himself, if He is a liar, lunatic or Lord. There really is no other choice in the matter. Now if you are really serious about investigating Jesus, then I would suggest you read the gospel of John, but if you are not serious, don't even bother. God is real and He is able to make Himself known to you in whatever way He wants.

3/21/2008 2:25:04 PM by Iliana, Member of Delve into Jesus since 3/7/2008

Let's get this matter straight. JesusWazza, I would suggest you go directly to the Source. Ask God if Jesus is His Son. Arsin, I'm sorry.

3/21/2008 3:09:47 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

God is Perfect. God is Wise. God is Pure. God is Holy. God is Righteous. God is Just. God is Eternal. His ways are higher than ours.

3/21/2008 9:01:17 PM by Ignited~Faith, Member of Delve into Jesus since 2/20/2008

Mrs. Piggy, No need to apologize at all. I have no qualms with whatever you write so long as it is true, kind and respectful. (And you have never, ever spoken otherwise). You and I have disagreed from time to time on how best to answer people's questions, but there would never be any need to apologize for that! I will answer in my own way, and you can answer in your way, and God willing, one or both of us will be right! I tend to focus on evidence, logic, reason, facts, etc. That is just one path to finding God, but there others. Each person comes to Christ through their own path. Your answer is extremely valid - if you want to know about Jesus, you can read about him in a book (Strobel, for example) or you can get down on your knees and pray to God to reveal Himself to you. The second way is by far the better way. The reason I invite people to choose the first way is that from my experience, they will not pray or speak to Jesus until they are already convinced He exists. So, given that limitation, the next best thing is to use facts and evidence to show that He does. This is still a very legitimate path - Paul does this in Greece in the book of Acts (but He also does the other!) However, I am learning that not everyone is like this. Some people who are seeking God need to be given the advice that He is right there and all you have to do is cry out. If they will do that, then praise God! I need to start having more faith that for some people, it's just that easy (or rather I should say, with God, it can be that easy - it's people who make it complicated). Thank you for your part in reminding me of that. For what it's worth, this is the same approach Wisdom took, and I admire that, and just wish it could have been done with kindness and respect. I regret that whole situation got out of hand.

3/22/2008 11:24:37 AM by Michael Lane, Executive Director, Delve Christian Ministries

I perceive JesusWazziZombi as being quite spiritual based on all I've read and re-read that he's written on this site. My understanding of his writing is that he knows that God is God and the creator, but he's questioning Jesus as The Son of God. He appears to be trying to "reason" out in his mind this very thing. I've prayed and what came to me was Hebrews 13:2. We have to be careful how we treat people. Also, what if I went to a website and people were trying to convince me that Jesus IS NOT the Son of God. Wow. I would go to God in prayer and ask Him for myself. We believe the Bible to be the Word of God and we spend time spewing these words out, but do we really believe them? The Bible says in Hosea 4:6, "My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge." Then James 1:5 states, "If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him." JesusWazziZombie is not challenging our faith. He's trying to understand it. I commend him in his efforts. The Bible also says, "Seek and you will find." This is a spiritual principal. It will work for anyone, believer or not. Remember He causes it to rain on the just AND the unjust. Ask and you will receive.

3/22/2008 2:21:11 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

Mrs. Piggy - I like your suggestion to just ask God. There is no better outcome we could desire for a seeker than for God to directly speak answers to their questions. I do have faith God will answer these types of questions. I hope your type of response will be my front line of advice to others in the future. However, I remain fixated on feeling God does not always choose to quickly answer, or reply in the manner we request. I know God is true to His word to supply both faith and answers to those who seek. However, He is God and he sets the terms of the how and when His promises are fulfilled. I worry about those who ask for revelation, and then feel let down or decide their questions have been answered in the negative - because they don't immediately perceive answers. On the other hand I know God won't lose any He is calling to Him. Perhaps my concerns only point to a huge lack of faith on my part - which must be overcome. I ask God for faith daily. Previously, I had begged God daily for two years, for answers to questions such as the ones mentioned above. He has answered my questions - my relief and thankfulness for those answers cause me to feel it would be inappropriate of me to demand or expect immediate answers to future questions. Due to no fault of yours, when I read some of your faith-filled comments, I question my self in regard to whether I was honestly seeking God with my whole heart during my long wait for answers. Maybe I am wrong, but after lengthy consideration, I believe I desperately pursued God with all I had. Yes, I lacked faith in everything I asked of God - faith is what I needed from Him. Currently, when I acknowledge all the blessings God has given me - especially the direct answers He has lovingly supplied - I'm embarrassed to admit I still have a faith deficit. Your views, almost always supported by scriptures, are appreciated. Your faith is a wonderful witness. God desires the same for all of His children but, it appears to me that there are so many differing paths of experience we walk. At times, I wish seeking and finding were a very concise and immediate process to undergo and complete. The seeking should last our enire lives; so will the joy of finding. Thanks for reminding me that the best response I could give to others would be to ask God. When God answers, all of our reasonings are obsolete. Does a need for rationale to present to seekers, which encourages them to consider God and questions to ask Him, remain? As Arsin, mentioned above, we tend to respond to others based on our experiences. I hope my future responses are improved by the additon of faith to my experiences. Perhaps we could benefit from a new discussion topic regarding faith.

3/24/2008 11:07:07 AM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

Brother Ryan, It' ALL in the "believing". Jesus said, "If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask in prayer." (Matthew 21:22) Don't put yourself down about faith. God has given all of us "a measure" of faith. It is up to us to make it grow. Just like anything else that's planted, the seed of faith requires Son-shine and watering. I believe the Son-shine comes from the words that Jesus spoke and the watering is prayer. God is so faithful to His word. Quite often in the past I have prayed and like others, thought God had not answered my prayer or that the answer was negative. But, in studying the Bible I found that it I was not always praying God's word. He will answer yes to any prayer that lines up with His word. Also, the answer really is immediate. It just takes us time to realize that the prayer has been answered. God does not procrastinate. The next time you pray, believe right then that you have received. Then, we your prayer is made manifest, get quiet and think back. You'll find that it was answered prior to your realization. Hind sight is 20-20. It's like knowing something, but forgetting you knew it until it's mentioned. I find that most of what Jesus spoke on was faith. He continually told the disciples to have faith. I, too, feel this would be a good topic for discussion.

3/24/2008 12:27:35 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

I meant WHEN your prayer is made manifest, not we. I tend to have problems with the edit botton. I guess if I could type, it wouldn't be an issue.:)

3/24/2008 12:33:49 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

I was at the store the other day. I found a penny on the ground. (I don't usually pick them up.) This penny I did pick up, and I held it close and read: "IN GOD WE TRUST." Then I asked myself; "Do I? Do I really trust God with everything?" And I remembered something I was worrying about, and not trusting God with... And I asked Him to take this too. And He did! I find in my own life that trials come so I can see my need for God's help. And God can teach me things as I lean on Him, and it helps to make my faith stronger. God is Faithful!

3/24/2008 12:44:32 PM by Ignited~Faith, Member of Delve into Jesus since 2/20/2008

IgnitedFaith, Thank you for sharing this. YOU just reminded me there is something I need to turn over to God. Peace & Joy to you.

3/24/2008 2:15:36 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

And much "Agape" Love!!

3/24/2008 2:16:27 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

Hey everyone, I posted here about a week ago and I wanted to share this movie i found and see what you guys thought of it? http://www.bloodline-themovie.com/

3/27/2008 5:49:34 PM by JesusWazzaZombi, Member of Delve into Jesus since 3/17/2008

Hey everyone, I posted here about a week ago and I wanted to share this movie i found and see what you guys thought of it? http://www.bloodline-themovie.com/

3/27/2008 5:49:37 PM by JesusWazzaZombi, Member of Delve into Jesus since 3/17/2008

Not worth the 9.50 it cost to see it. Right up there with Jurasic Park.

4/1/2008 7:35:06 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

Good Morning Mrs. Piggy - you bring to mind the credit card commercial that mentions the price of a series of items while building a scenario which culminates in a priceless experience. I can agree that there is a likelihood the movie is not worth the cost of admission. I also feel there is a multitude of pertinent reasons for people to decide against seeing this film. I will see this movie with hopes for an eventual priceless outcome. Jesus has paid the price of admission to a relationship with Him; the rewards of which are priceless to us. Something of such value is too good to keep for ourselves so we yearn to share the good news of Jesus with all. I would gladly pay for the tickets, plus concessions, for any of my friends, new and old, who feel this movie is important to them. I have confidence we could all enjoy an honest and appealing debate afterward. I hope I am promoting relationships based on respect and genuine concern for the wellbeing of others. People in my proximity may respond to me in direct relation to how successful I am at being able to demonstrate love toward them on a human level. Of course, the presence of the Holy Spirit enables us to take that love to amazing heights. I also feel that responding to what my friends value will cause them to consider what is important to me. After amicably seeing this movie with friends, I feel they would be much more likely to openly view material which is important to me. I would be quite enthused to share Christian resources with anyone who is willing. After doing so, I would also expect a debate of the material. I can identify with your comment, and support anyone's decision not to see the movie. I also have concerns about seeing this movie however, for me, the scale has tipped completely in favor of hope for a priceless conclusion.

4/2/2008 10:43:12 AM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

Brother Ryan, I love your spirit. Every time I read your posts, these words rise up in my spirit: "Blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called sons of God." Your willingness to be open to things is commendable. As for me, while everything is permissable, not everything is beneficial. I cannot see this type of movie. Not because of the movie itself, but the spirits of others that will be in the theatre. I KNOW there will be all kinds of demonic spirits sitting in seats enjoying this movie. No one could enjoy the movie if I'm there calling out spirits. There would be a riot as people fight to hold on to their demonic spirits. I would be asked to leave, I'm sure. Can you imagine sitting in a movie and suddenly someone stands up and says, "Ponography, I'm calling you to come out of this man right now, in the name of Jesus!" Or, "Witchcraft, leave this woman in the name of Jesus!" People with demonic spirits love these kinds of movies, they want to disprove the divinity of Jesus so they can continue in sin. But the Word of God says, Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. Satan would love to have a crowd in hell with him. Misery loves company. But, you go and take all the saints with you that are willing to go. Create your stimulating debate afterwards. Just remember satan is the father of lies. I will keep you all lifted up in prayer. Above all, guard your hearts.

4/2/2008 11:34:59 AM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

JesusWazza, I went to the website and there was just a dark screen. No pictures and no words. Thank you

4/2/2008 12:00:25 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

Mrs. Piggy - Fortunately, we know Jesus drives out demons and saves the afflicted. I hope you don't feel I would have any desire to see this movie with saints, but would definitely see it with someone who is seeking answers regarding the divinity of Jesus. I am amazed by all the different angles which these dilemmas pose. I was not at all concerned about the demonic spirits in other attendees or their father of lies. Just as I'm not expecting the content of the movie to hold any sway over me, I did not fear the power of evil. I know I would do well to heed your warning though. My reservations for seeing the movie were due to concern that my presence would be disrespectful to Jesus. However, I believe Jesus knows the content of my heart and will respond to my consistent pleas to purify my heart. I intend no disrespect, but hope that there is good to come, if it is His will. Perhaps because we have just passed through the season commemorating the crucifixion and celebrating the resurrection of Jesus, I'm thinking of Jesus' words paraphrased as: Forgive them for they dont know what they are doing. I think this sentiment applies to all those related to the movie who do intend to disrespectfully deny His divinity. His suffering on the cross does afford them forgiveness; but, they need exposure to that reality. If Jesus is willing to forgive their fault, I'm eager to do my part to help them see that fault. On the other side of the issue, I have more fear of seeing Passion of the Christ. Many Christians recommend the movie, and feel the graphic brutality of the crucifixion scene helped them better appreciate Jesus' sacrifice. I realize we live in the glory of what His sacrifice and resurrection have done for us, and that should be my overriding thought. However, I'm not yet ready to see that scene because I know the crucifixion was my fault. I'm sure we are all praising our Redeemer & Protector on this day He has made for each of us.

4/2/2008 1:32:51 PM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

Brother Ryan, Do all that is in your heart. I am not trying to stop you from going. I'm stating that I could not attend. Yes, Jesus drives out demons through us. (Mark 16:17) And I refuse to waste my money to see something that does not benefit me at all. I have no need to debate the divinity of Jesus. Fear has nothing to do with it. The Passion of the Christ, on the otherhand, was a "must-see" for me. I don't remember much of the crucifixion scene as I was crying too hard to focus and my husband says I squeezed his hand numb. We actually went to the midnight showing and it was packed. All to the glory of God. Again, I am not in opposition of what you do. I just don't understand the why of it. Why would a believer go see a film designed to disprove the very thing he believes in? No need to explain further. It does not have to make sense to me, it makes sense to you. Peace & joy be unto you.

4/3/2008 9:36:33 AM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

2 Corinthians 10:5

4/3/2008 1:12:41 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

Glad to have you on the team Mrs. Piggy - I suppose you furnished that scripture in support of attending this movie. How can we demolish arguments against God if we refuse to participate in the debate? How can we free the captives and lead them to the obedience of Christ if we won't go into the prisons? So, you'll join me then?

4/3/2008 1:30:31 PM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

IgnitedFaith - Thanks for tuning me into the fact there are even Christians we need to reclaim for Christ. Let's not waste our numbered days and go after them now. Let's enlist them in the fight to reach others that are struggling to find true wisdom.

4/3/2008 1:35:00 PM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

I agree! We have been given the truth and have no use for counterfeits! We are so enamored with what the truth does for us and wholeheartedly desire to serve He who gave us the truth. So we pray for opportunities to witness; we beg God to allow us to be used in His work. God supplies people whom He has chosen for us to witness unto. Wow, who can argue with whom God has chosen? We are so inspired by the potential which exists for this person; especially if they come from a rough background because we are in awe of what the power of God can do with the vilest person. Sweating with fervor to follow God's commands, we boldly go into to the world to pull someone out of the fire before it is too late - quick the flames are so hot. Thoughts of Saul who became Paul race through our minds, as we long for God to add a servant to His service. We take the command to go into ALL the world to preach the gospel unto EVERYONE literally. We will then hear WELL DONE MY GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANT! Or ... We may have to explain to God: Surely You didn't mean ALL the world. You know I really never liked THAT part of the world, it is so dirty. Why would I waste Your truth there? Preach the Gospel to THAT one? I know he crossed my path, but he was not the type I was praying to witness unto. No, no, he had an ugly spirit, and we know how clean I am. Yes, we workers at the Bank do recognize the true bills. I am glad you and I agree to pray for opportunities to teach our customers to appreciate true riches.

4/3/2008 4:16:14 PM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

Ryan, I am not attending the movie. We wrestle not against flesh and blood. I can war in the spirit on my couch. And I will not give financial support to them. "To the man who pleases Him, God gives wisdom, knowledge and happiness, but to the sinner He gives the task of gathering and storing up wealth to hand over to the one who pleases God." As for reclaiming Christians, they have doubts which if left unchecked will lead them to unbelief. I will pray for them right now. Question: How does one who is fully convinced doubt?

4/3/2008 4:21:51 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

Oh, please Mrs. Piggy - don't turn back from the plow now; the field is ripe for harvest! The cinema awaits our debut. I did imagine you calling out spirits as you mentioned earlier - that is the show that will really get people's attention! I also imagined those people, whom you will be exorcising are my neighbors. My neighbor down the street has the problem with pornography. Witchcraft has a hold on my neighbor at the office. Unspeakable sin is plaguing my neighbor in front of me at the traffic light. To all those at the theater whom I do not recognize, I will ask: Won't you be my neighbor? They need you to call out their demons. Mrs. Piggy, you and I are a team. Let's work together. Regarding your question: I pray you will never know by first hand experience. As you mentioned elsewhere, it is best to be careful what we speak, because words can be spoken into reality.

4/3/2008 4:56:07 PM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

MrsPiggy, You said, "Question: How does one who is fully convinced doubt?" ------------------------------------- (A lot of people call themselves Christians. God knows if a person's conversion is real or not.) Jesus said; Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21 "Behold, a sower went forth to sow; And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them: But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matthew 13:3b-9

4/3/2008 5:03:53 PM by Ignited~Faith, Member of Delve into Jesus since 2/20/2008

Truth be told, in the almost seven years since I have become a parent, I have only seen one movie that was not a children's flick. That movie was about US politics. I enjoyed it immensely, but I only attended to appease a friend. I hope you recall that I am not advocating this movie for Christians to see, and my only reason to see it is to demonstrate my respect for others - with hopes they will in turn be inspired to consider the Gospel message. Your comments have helped me better understand the objections pre-believers may have toward considering a different viewpoint.

4/3/2008 5:09:03 PM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

I was referring back to Mrs. Piggy's comment on 04/02/2008 at 11:34 a.m. She mentioned she would have to call out demons if she attended the movie. Can you imagine sitting in a movie and suddenly someone stands up and says, "Ponography, I'm calling you to come out of this man right now, in the name of Jesus!" Or, "Witchcraft, leave this woman in the name of Jesus!" It is part of Mrs. Piggy's purpose to supply scriptures.

4/3/2008 5:30:45 PM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

I just remembered ... convenience for me ... or the hand of God? My friend who asked me to see the political movie, has a history in the Baptist church, but now describes himself as an atheist. He has a huge intellect and therefore writes his own rules for interacting with others. He carefully steers conversations to suit his interests. Lately, he has been asking me questions about events which occasionally occur in the hospital he works at. These happenings are astounding him, and he has been asking me if I think they are miracles. These brief forays into possible miracles have been the only openings I have had to share my beliefs with him. If he asks me to see the movie in question, how could I say no. This movie may expand the repertoire of usual topics which we discuss. God does work in mysterious ways!

4/3/2008 5:53:06 PM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

Ignited Faith, There is much cause to rejoice! Earlier today, you cited Matthew 7:21; I will only accept this to mean you have joined our cause! We know the will of our Heavenly Father is for us to go to the lost. We will find them where ever the lost tend to lurk. I may go broke with all the movie tickets I must buy. No worries, I have counted the cost.

4/3/2008 6:51:45 PM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

Ryan, You keep going on about buying tickets. If you were buying us tickets, how would that work? I am in Chicago. I don't know where you are or IgnitedFaith. Are you guys coming here? Arsin is in Canada, I think.

4/3/2008 7:24:50 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

Physical locations are a mere detail. We just need to be willing to do the Father's work. He will supply the means.

4/3/2008 7:33:14 PM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

This entire discussion, over the past two days, was about winning souls for Christ, right? The movie is just a prop, no?

4/3/2008 7:35:26 PM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

I can't understand enthusiasm for attending this movie. Months ago, I bought a copy of Dawkins' book, but did so with great reluctance. I bought it used so that I would give him as little money as possible. My only purpose in reading it is to understand and debate it's ridiculous claims. I would never pay to see this movie. I might watch it if someone lent it to me, but again, just for the purpose of debating it. I think it's important to understand the atheist and non-Christian claims, but we should be wary of crossing the line into supporting or endorsing them.

4/3/2008 7:48:28 PM by Michael Lane, Executive Director, Delve Christian Ministries

Loril, I understand how difficult it can be to discuss these sensitive topics without getting upset, but I would implore you to find a way to keep your comments filled with kindness and respect. I try never to intervene in a discussion unless my opinion is asked for, but in this case I think I need to make a plea for everyone to remember that love has to be at the core of everything we write. Sometimes, when we disagree vehemently with someone, all we can do is express our love for them, and then pray for God to open everyone's eyes so that we can all see the truth. (Please don't think that I know what truth lies at the heart of this issue for I don't, and I am not taking sides on this issue, but I do think peace and love need to return)

4/4/2008 6:56:22 AM by Michael Lane, Executive Director, Delve Christian Ministries

Mrs. Piggy, Ignited Faith and Arsin, We have to get past the movie. All joking aside, we all really do have much agreement on the content and the purpose of the movie. This movie really was only a dispensable prop, a red herring, a gnat caught in a strainer. This phase of the discussion started when someone wrote what I discerned to be a typical dismissive comment to a seeker. My response to which, - if you know how to read between the lines - was: Oh no, we are making another condescending and trivializing comment to alienate the very ones God is sending to us so that we can reflect the light of Jesus. No wonder people question the divinity of Jesus when His followers are so base. Why don't we see that with God's command and blessings we are equipped to meet our brother in need, where ever he may stand, and gently guide him into the light? We can evangelize in the prisons, halls of congress, red light districts, board rooms, skid row, bastions of high society, crack houses and school houses - where ever God provides the opportunity. Where ever there is darkness, there should be light. Or do we feel we should only be interested in sharing boasts with other like-parsimony-minded Christians, who can appreciate our piety and special gifts? Why do we gloat about battling Satan, but have no fear of millstones? If the lost do not see love, they will not recognize piety. If they are not given the Word to hear, there is no purpose for spiritual gifts. I hope you all would know that I believe any criticism I would level against another person is equally pertinent to my own performance. For me not to see this fact would mean I don't live in the light. Praises to the Light of the World who desires to shine through us!

4/4/2008 8:06:32 AM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

Arsin - Do I sense you have changed your position on evangelizing or am I misunderstanding you again?

4/4/2008 8:13:01 AM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

Nothing has changed whatsoever. As I've said many times, the purpose of our ministry is, first and foremost, apologetics which is a form of evangelizing. We have resources for Christians, but the main focus of our work in on winning souls for Christ. So, for me, it would depend on the motive of seeing the movie. Believe me when I say that if I had a non-Christian friend who wanted to see the movie and then discuss it with me over coffee, I would go in a second and offer to pay for both tickets. If this is what you're talking about, then we are in total agreement. Would I go and see a filthy, vulgar, R-Rated movie with him? No, I would suggest another movie or decline. Would I go to a strip-club with a friend on the hope that we could get some time to talk about Jesus? Not on your life. I will never hesitate to spend time with a non-Christian so long as we are not sinning together, for if he sees me sinning, I can never hope to fully explain to him what Christ has done for me. I cherish my time with non-Christian friends, and I am always amazed at how often they ask me about Christ, but they do so because they see Him living in me. They know I am different. I can evangelize by being with them, but not be being like them. I digress. But about the movie...I'm not saying its a sin to go and watch it. As I said I would see if with someone, if there was a goal in mind, but if the idea was that I would go alone to see it, or go with my wife, I would pass. I don't think it would help my ministry to watch one more movie or read one more book where they lie about my Lord. Forgive this if it sounds arrogant, but for now I think I have a good enough grasp of their mistakes to be able to do what I need to do to set them straight.

4/4/2008 8:36:18 AM by Michael Lane, Executive Director, Delve Christian Ministries

Arsin - thanks for your reply. I think we agree on every point now. Perhaps you missed part of the discussion when I stated my only reason for seeing the movie was the same reason you mentioned as your only reason for seeing such a movie. I love movies. We used to live a few blocks from a fantastic art cinema. My wife and I would run down the hill together to see some beautiful movies; mostly foreign films. Since the birth of our first child, I can only recall being in the cinema to see one move that was not children's fare. I would really enjoy being able to return to my movie going days and would hate to waste a rare trip to the cinema - unless it would result in enlightening someone who has questions.

4/4/2008 8:57:11 AM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

I confess I must have. I'm delighted at how the message board has taken off, but it does make it hard to follow every thread.

4/4/2008 9:18:45 AM by Michael Lane, Executive Director, Delve Christian Ministries

Hi LORIL, I admire your bravery to return here after all that went down last week. I am very sorry events led to an unfortunate start for you on this site. Usually, discussions are friendly and welcoming to new people. As we know we have been forgiven, we can agree we should forgive others. I saw some very insightful points and questions you raised in your posts. Regrettably, I think others failed to see the validity of your viewpoints. It has to be okay that others do not see things like you and I may think. We only obscure our valid points when we appear negative or to be attacking others. Regardless of who is at fault and what the fault is, I hope we can all put that sordid mess behind us and build on constructive ideas. If any good can come out of this situation, for me, it is a reminder that I have to trust God to defend me - that is a lesson I wish I had mastered in childhood; but, better late than never. Forgiving others is good for us. I am praying for your peace and success LORIL!

4/4/2008 10:30:14 AM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

Ryan, Please forgive me. I did not read all the posts, I misunderstood from where you were coming from! Now I understand!

4/4/2008 10:36:18 AM by Ignited~Faith, Member of Delve into Jesus since 2/20/2008

Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4/4/2008 10:41:56 AM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

LORIL, It's good to see you posting again. In reading your recent post, I am reminded of John 10:27, which reads: "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me." God talks to all of His children. Why would He not talk to me? Are you implying that I am not God's child?

4/4/2008 11:41:12 AM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

LORIL, There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers. (Proverbs 6:16-10) I do not lie and I am not a false witness. I love the Lord and avoid these seven things at all cost. I write these words in love and hope they are accepted in the same spirit.

4/4/2008 11:53:46 AM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

As the topic is not the same yesterday as today, I begged to differ. The things God hated in the OT, He hates today.

4/4/2008 11:56:09 AM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

Mrs. Piggy - Since you are well aware you are a child of God, why would you bait another child of God into sin? Why do we gloat about battling Satan, but we dont fear millstones? There is enough peace in Jesus for all of us today.

4/4/2008 11:56:36 AM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

Ryan - I need your advice. What should I do? Let it be? Intervene? Make sure everyone plays nice, or just let them say what they will?

4/4/2008 12:03:17 PM by Michael Lane, Executive Director, Delve Christian Ministries

Arsin - Ask your wife; she is the one who knows how to use her Spiritual Gifts for the glory of God.

4/4/2008 12:07:35 PM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

I give up.

4/4/2008 12:10:56 PM by Michael Lane, Executive Director, Delve Christian Ministries

Do you have that option?

4/4/2008 12:15:39 PM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

Yes Ryan, I know who I am in Christ and I prayed prior to the posting. I am not baiting anyone. Let's play fair, okay. Loril questioned my post and I questioned hers. I REALLY want to know if I'm reading this correctly: DID I READ THAT RIGHT? GOD SPOKE TO YOU Why would this even be questioned? I am a person of integrity with a strong sense of fair play. Why is it the two of you feel your questions should be answered and mine not?

4/4/2008 12:19:28 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

Arsin - If we bite to completely devour each other, you may have nothing left to give up.

4/4/2008 12:20:46 PM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

Of course I do. Our ministry is about helping non-Christians find the Lord. In the last few weeks, this discussion area has been filled with nothing but squabbling among Christians. People's feelings have been hurt, people have been upset and I cannot be certain that one good thing has come out of it. I cannot imagine how bad it must look for people to come here with questions about the Lord and to find His followers grappling with one another. I grow weary of being some kind of referee when people can't be civil to one another. So, yes, I most certainly have the option of giving up when I feel that things are going down the wrong path. If I feel this area of the site is not serving the Lord, I will shut it down in a moment.

4/4/2008 12:21:20 PM by Michael Lane, Executive Director, Delve Christian Ministries

Mrs. Piggy - I am sorry, but the only answer that comes to mind is one I would hope to deliver only in private. I'll think about my answer and get back to you later. Again, I am sorry and really must attend to an overdue appointemnt. You have reminded me before that God has every answer we need.

4/4/2008 12:24:19 PM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

Arsin - my point was our devouring ourselves destroys the ministry that newcomers need to become Christians. I still think there are some good thoughts - at least for ourselves on these pages. However, maybe you should remove all unedifying comments. I sincerely appologize for upsetting others.

4/4/2008 12:29:51 PM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

I'm gone

4/4/2008 12:33:41 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

I was not asking anyone to take sideS sorry if it seemed that way,MY CONCERN WAS IF THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS THOUGHT TO BE TRUTH, I WOULD HAVE BEAN WEARY ABOUT THE SITE THATS ALL, I'M BEING HONEST NOT TRYING TO MAKE ANYONE AT ALL FEEL LIKE THIS IS THE WRONG ROAD OR,SITE OR THIS IS HOW CHRISTIANS GET ALONG IT'S ABOUT HELPING PEOPLE WITH QUESTIONS, (HELPING) HELPING SOMEONE COPE WITH A ISSUE IN A COMFORTING WAY, BUT RATHER I SEE MORE WERE THE WORD OF GOD IS NOT BELIEVED BECAUSE SOMEONE HAS THIS CONCERN, OR WHY ARE QUESTIONING GOD. WHY HAVE THIS KIND OF A SITE IF THAT IS YOUR REPLY. TELL ME BECAUSE I REALLY NEED TO KNOW, I LIKE KNOWING THAT WHEN I GO TO SOMEONE WITH A QUESTION LIKE A USED TO WITH MY PASTOR 4 YRS AGO,I'LL GET SOME UNDERSTANDING, IF HE ANSWERED ME LIKE THIS I WOULD NEVER BE WHERE I AM IN GOD TODAY , MY QUESTIONS WERE A LOT MORE WHYS AND HOW AND ANGER FOR WHAT HAPPENS TO PEOPLE, BUT BECAUSE OF HIS LOVING ANSWERS NOT JUDGING MY QUESTIONS TO BE A BAD THING BROUGHT ME THROUGH IT, TO BEING BORN AGAIN AND FEELING SO MUCH JOY AND REALLY FEELING THE SPIRIT, BUT STILL THAT WAS ONLY THE BEGINNING IT WAS BIBLE STUDY EVERY WEDNESDAY AND TUESDAY, JOIN THE CHOIR AND LOVED IT,EVEN THOUGH I CAN'T SING, I SOON BEGAN DIGESTING AND EVERYTHING WAS JUST FEELING LIKE I WAS UNDERSTANDING SO MUCH SO FAST, THAT IS WHY THERE IS BIBLE STUDY . AND I REALLY DON'T GET MRSPIGGY'S OUTLOOK ON THAT, THE MOVIE TOPIC I DIDN'T REPLY ON BECAUSE I WASN'T SURE WHAT THE MOVIE WAS ABOUT, YOU ASK AND YOU GIVE YOUR THOUGHT ON IT AND WHY, AND THAT IS JUST YOUR OWN FEELINGS, I HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WITH WHAT I WATCH BECAUSE TO MUCH VIOLENCE BOTHERS ME, BUT THAT IS ME, A SCARY MOVIE I'D WATCH AS LONG AS IT'S NOT GORY, PASSION OF CHRIST, I DIDN'T SEE RIGHT AWAY, BUT I DID SEE IT AND YES I DID CRY AND GET ANGRY BECAUSE OF HOW JESUS WAS TREATED IT WAS A HARD MOVIE AND I SHUT MY EYES A LOT. BUT AS FAR AS THE MOVIE AND SEEING THE LOVE OF GOD THAT PERSON HAS,I THINK ID SAY ENJOY LET ME KNOW HOW IT WAS, I'M NOT GOOD AT QUOTING SCRIPTURE, BUT ISN'T IT SAID SOMEWHERE THAT YOUR LOVE FOR GOD CAN'T BE DEFEATED, I HOPE U ALL UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING ,I KNOW MY LAST RESPONSE WAS NOT VERY LOVING,BUT I HAD A LOT BUILT UP WITH THOSE KINDS OF REPLY,S, I MEAN GOD SAID NONE OF YOUR BUISNESS IS THAT WHAT WE WANT NEW CHRISTIANS TO BELIEVE. AND LASTLY I DO BELIEVE GOD SPEAKS TO US THOUGH DREAMS OR PEOPLE MAYBE SONGS BUT NOT HEAR HIS VOICE ANSWER YOU IN THE AIR. AND NO I SURELY DON'T THINK HE SPOKE AND A SNAKE APPEARED. YES MRSPIGGY YOU ARE A CHILD OF GOD, BUT NO I DON'T BELIEVE ANY OF THAT, AND IF I'M NOT HONEST ABOUT SOMETHING SO IMPORTANT THEN WHAT IS THAT CALLED, AND I TRIED TO SAY IT LOVINGLY, I DID THE BEST I COULD,THANKS FOR ALL YOUR REPLY'S YOU ARE REALLY CARING PEOPLE I CAN FEEL THAT. THANK GOD AND PLEASE KNOW I'M NOT UNKIND AND I DON'T WANT ANYONE TO LEAVE, THE GOOD THAT CAN COME OUT OF THIS IS GETTING THROUGH THIS:) :) :) :)

4/4/2008 5:59:16 PM by LORIL, Member of Delve into Jesus since 3/23/2008

(I deleted some of my comments.) In the future I will choose my words more carefully.

4/4/2008 7:27:28 PM by Ignited~Faith, Member of Delve into Jesus since 2/20/2008

Hebrews 3:15

4/4/2008 7:38:28 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

In John 21:22 when Peter questioned Jesus about John, Jesus answered, "What is that to you? You must follow me." In effect, Jesus was telling Peter it's none of his business. He, Peter, was to follow Him.

4/5/2008 8:49:46 AM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

Since we, as children of God have received the promises of Abraham, I strive to be righteous in my words towards everyone. In Genesis 12:3, The Word of God says, "I will bless those who bless you and I will curse those who curse you. In the Amplified Bible bless means to speak prosperity and happiness towards the person and curse means to speak insolent or disrespectful words towards a person.

4/5/2008 9:31:41 AM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

LoriL, It is okay if you don't believe me. I can not be higher than my Master and there were those who didn't believe Him

4/5/2008 9:34:03 AM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

MRS PIGGY PLEASE STOP THIS, I'M NOT GOING TO GO BACK AND FORTH LIKE THIS, I DON'T THINK GOD WILL CURSE ME FOR GIVING MY THOUGHT ON WHAT WAS SAID , AS I DIDN'T CURSE YOU, I'M NOT GOING TO GO BACK AND FORTH THAT TO ME IS NOT BEING RIGHTEOUS TO EACH OTHER. I HAD A PROMBLEM WITH THAT ONLY BECAUSE IN MY READING GOD DOESN'T TALK OPENLY TO US,IF YOU SAY IT HAPPENED TO U THEN SO BE IT, BUT JUST AS IF I SAID SOMETHING THAT YOU DIDN'T AGREE ON WAS THE WORD OF GOD, YOU WOULD MAKE THAT KNOWN, SO IN YOUR OWN WORDS DON'T TELL ME I'M CURSED, BECAUSE YOUR USING SCRIPTURE AS A WAY OF MAKING A DISRESPECTFUL REMARK, JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE WORDING IS IN YOUR EYES DIFFERENT, THE SAME MEANING APPLIES, SO LETS NOT JUDGE EACH OTHER,. LETS TRY TO PRACTICE WHAT WE PREACH I'M GOING TO END THIS WITH YOU BY SAYING IF I DID SEEM TO BE UNKIND IT WASN'T MEANT TO BE THAT WAY, AND I'M SORRY FOR THE WAY IT SOUNDED, AND I MEAN NO DISRESPECT, THERE IS NO NEED FOR THAT, I ONLY SAID THE TRUTH IN MY EYES,COULD I OF WORDED IT BETTER, I THINK I STARTED BY SAYING DID I READ THAT RIGHT AND THAT IS BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE IF I AM, BUT THE END RESULT WOULD OF BEEN THE SAME SO MATTER HOW I WROTE IT,

4/5/2008 2:22:57 PM by LORIL, Member of Delve into Jesus since 3/23/2008

As you say.

4/5/2008 10:14:40 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

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