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".... and love your brother as yourself."
How do I love myself? What does that involve? How can I measure the love I have for myself? What if I don't even LIKE myself ... does it mean I can treat my brother badly?
What does it actually mean in practical terms when I say I love my wife, my brother, God?
Where is the meeting between feelings and commitment, which could be, probably are, different things?
How does love differ from care, concern, closeness, empathy?
One little word, such huge ramifications ... and headaches!
davec
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davec-
10/30/2007 8:50:57 AM
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Hey, Dave.
There are lots of different kinds of love. Our impoverished English language only has one word to cover them all, but in the Greek of the New Testament, I believe there are four. C.S Lewis wrote a book comparing and contrasting the four loves in the a book called, coincidentally enough, "The Four Loves". I have not read it, but I understand it's an excellent, fascinating volume.
It's important to make this distinction, because there are elements of love we can control, and some we can't. Looking at your list, I would say we can control commitment but not feelings. I can "love" my brother in Jesus' sense of the word even if I think he is loathsome, because this kind of love is about action, not feeling. I cannot love him in the one sense I love my wife, which is affectionately, but I can love him in another sense, which is caring and concern.
This kind of love is all about action, regardless of how you feel. It's about respect, generosity, kindness. It's almost like the golden rule - you "love" your brother by treating him like you would want to be treated. I think this is very much what Jesus has in mind.
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tom-
10/31/2007 2:07:17 PM
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I see it as being an issue of presence of mind and priority. Almost all of the commandments have, at their core, this idea of getting our minds off of ourselves. "Love your brother" in practice looks like "how can I help him?" or "what can I do for him?"
I see it like this. I go and shovel the snow out of my driveway, and after 20 hard minutes, I'm beat. I look across the road and I see a young single mother doing the same. I have a choice to make. Do I go inside and enjoy my hot chocolate by the fire, or go over and help her. If I help her, that's love. Heck, even if I have enough presence of mind to notice her, and not be thinking about my own problems or my own desires, that's half the battle right there.
So, doing nice things for people, is that it? Sort of. It's putting other people above yourself. It's focusing on them at least as much as you focus on yourself. On my drive home from work, am I thinking about me and my problems, or am I thinking about my wife and her problems? If I am thinking about her, that's love. Thinking about God and what He wants from me, that's loving God.
If our mind is constantly pre-occupied with thoughts of "me, me, me", then I am probably not being as loving as I could be. If you could think about your neighbor even half as much as you think about yourself you're doing well. Once you spend as much time thinking about others as you do yourself, then you can say you "love them as you love yourself."
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addison-x-
10/31/2007 3:27:28 PM
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Agape, philao and eros. What is the fourth love?
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mrspiggy-
3/22/2008 6:30:18 PM
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1. Eros fleshly love
2. Phileo friendship love
3. Storge family love
4. Agape sacrificial love
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Ignited~Faith-
3/23/2008 12:37:05 AM
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Thank you IgnitedFaith. But I think storge and philao are the same.
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mrspiggy-
3/23/2008 9:08:52 AM
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Okay, I found them. The others are:
Ludus = game playing love
Pragma = logical love
Mania = possessive, dependent/codependent love
That makes six in all.
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mrspiggy-
3/23/2008 9:21:55 AM
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MissPiggy,
(Storge and Phileo are different!)
STORGE, which is the love and affection that naturally occurs between parents and children, can exist between siblings, and exists between husbands and wives in a good marriage.
PHILEO, which means to have a special interest in someone or something, frequently with focus on close association; have affection for, like, consider someone a friend.
MissPiggy,
Where did you get;
"Ludus = game playing love
Pragma = logical love
Mania = possessive, dependent/codependent love"
???????????????????????????????????????????????
----------------------------------------------
Love is definded in the Bible (1 Corinthians 13:4-8)
This tells me that "Ludus, game playing love, Pragma,
logical love, and Mania, possessive, dependent/codependent love"
are Not Love.
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Ignited~Faith-
3/24/2008 12:24:57 PM
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Yes, love is defined in the Bible, but I don't remember seeing the words EROS or STORGE or PHILEO or AGAPE. It just says love.
I got the others from the topic. Did you not read, "What is this thing called love"? Of course they aren't REALLY love, but they do exist. Ludus could also be referred to as "puppy love. Are you saying that these terms don't exist? Where did you get the words agape, phileo or eros?
Real love is NOT an emotion, right?
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mrspiggy-
3/24/2008 12:54:22 PM
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It's from the original Greek. In the Greek language, there are at least four different words for love, and they are used throughout the New Testament depending on what the author intends. Our impoverished English language has only one, and the author's original meaning is sometimes harder to grasp. When I say, "I love my wife" in English, you have to presume what I mean based on context. When I say "I love my brother", it's the same word, but a slightly different meaning. In Greek, they would have used "phileo" in the second sentence and "eros" in the first.
So, this is not really a "bible" issue as it is a "language" issue.
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arsindelve-
3/24/2008 12:58:36 PM
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Okay, so which "love" is I Corinthians 13 describing. I took it to be agape.
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mrspiggy-
3/24/2008 1:18:22 PM
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I'll look it up - give me a minute or two.
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arsindelve-
3/24/2008 1:24:11 PM
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Also, I don't get why we only have one word for love and so many for money. Cash, loot, moo-lah, bread, currency, duckets, dough, paper, etc.
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mrspiggy-
3/24/2008 1:26:59 PM
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Yes, 1 Cor 13 uses "agape" throughout.
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arsindelve-
3/24/2008 1:29:14 PM
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arsindelve-
3/24/2008 1:30:50 PM
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Thank you. But the Bible ONLY has agape love. We have no biblical reference to the others.
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mrspiggy-
3/24/2008 1:48:24 PM
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According to that article on Wikipedia (I have not verified this myself) there are a few uses of "Philia" in the New Testament, and no uses of the others. By far, the word "agape" is the most frequently used.
If the Song Of Solomon had been written in Greek as opposed to Hebrew, we might find some "eros" in there ;)
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arsindelve-
3/24/2008 1:52:48 PM
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Okay, Romans 12:10 is one.
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mrspiggy-
3/24/2008 1:59:28 PM
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Mrs.Piggy, and Arsindelve,
Have you ever taken the Love Test?!
To measure how much love you are walking in.
Write down 1 Corinthians 13:4-8. Write it in three columns. (Vertical rows)A-B-C.
In the first column:
A- WRITE YOUR Name, and the verse, and see how you did.
For example:
IgnitedFaith is Patient. (Oops, I missed that one today when I...)
IgnitedFaith is Kind. (I sent my sick friend a card, but then I was unkind to my family when I had a headache...)
IgnitedFaith is not jealous. (Check.)
IgnitedFaith does not brag. (Oops!)
IgnitedFaith is not arrogant. (...)
Continue with all verses...
You see that when I attempt to love on my own strength,
I often fall short. I walk in the flesh.
You get the picture!
Next column is B-
Now in the second column:
Write the NAME JESUS,and then the verse.
For example:
Jesus is Patient. (Yes He is!)
Jesus is Kind. (Yes He is!)
Jesus does not brag. (No, He doesn't!)
Jesus isn't arrogant. (No He isn't!)
Continue with all verses...
You see that Jesus always hits the mark!
Next column is C-
Write JESUS IN ME, and then the verse.
Jesus in me is Patient. (With God, I can wait, and still have peace and joy!)
Jesus in me is Kind. (With God, I can be kind in any circumstance, even to my enemies.)
Jesus in me does not brag. (With God, I can humble myself, and think of others more highly as I should.)
Jesus in me isn't arrogant. (Etc.)
Continue with all verses...
When I humble myself and submit to the Holy Spirit, I can walk in love.
(I edited this. Some things came to my remembrance,
which I was greateful to be able to add!)
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Ignited~Faith-
3/24/2008 10:06:10 PM
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IgnitedFaith,
Yes and no. Yes, I judge myself quite frequently. No, I have never written out mrspiggy this or that. Thank you.
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mrspiggy-
3/25/2008 9:11:27 AM
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IgnitedFaith, I love what you shared above (The Love Test)! I have written that in my Bible and remember to read it often - taking the time to repeat each step as you have written... I can't remember where I found it, but I know it was in one of the inspirational books I've read lately. It's very humbling each time I "take the test" to see where I've fallen short and also helps me to pray for forgiveness of my sins as well as to pray for strength in the areas I fall short in. Thanks for the reminder - and for the share! :)
I am like you all in that I struggle with love sometimes - especially when Luke 6:27 commands me to "love my enemies". What a hard thing to do - but it's also very humbling to pray Luke 6:27 - 28 for those that are my "adversaries" in life. It's hard to understand the full ramifications of God's love, which has led me to read some really inspirational books and meditate in God's word each night before I go to bed. I think our journies in understanding love only draw us closer to God and help us to grasp some understanding of His will for us in our daily lives though... :)
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txhoneydarlin-
4/5/2008 1:59:30 PM
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