Today I read the devotional entitled: Forgiveness, posted 09/29/08. I thought is was very well written and based on the response deserved a place under discussion. Since I'm not a facilitator, I can't place a "click here" button to take you directly to the site. Maybe someone else will furnish that. I feel the topic is worthy of discussion, thus, the creation. I noticed that the forgiveness of one's self was not mentioned. So, we can start with that. How important do you think it is to forgive yourself?

10/21/2008 10:48:39 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

There is now a link to this discussion under your comment. Thanks for thinking of this, it's an excellent idea. Before we get too far into a discussion of forgiving oneself, I did want to mention that this will be the topic for the next devotional. I think I'd better hurry up and get it written! Perhaps I can do so before this weekend. I thought there would be some downtime at the conference, but there is none at all, especially when traveling with a precocious four-month old.

I do hope that some of the people who commented on the devotional will join us here so we can help them, listen to them and pray for them.

10/22/2008 7:46:26 AM by Michael Lane, Executive Director, Delve Christian Ministries

Thanks Arsin,

I know you're not in the office right now, so this was indeed above and beyond.

10/22/2008 5:05:41 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

John Eldredge writes about the experience of having God tell Him something just before he needs to know it, so that John often asks, "Oh? Am I going to need this soon? Ok, thanks, I'll try to remember that."

I can relate. The devotional I wrote about forgiveness? Well, now I need it. I just found out that a group I work with has been back stabbed and betrayed. The betrayal is going to cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars. I am seething with rage and bitterness. I want to make them pay for this! I want to bring them down and expose them for what they are!

And in the midst of this, I hear God telling me, "...so now you know why you wrote that devotional. Go back and read it, and apply it now."

Ok God. I will try my best. Thanks for trying to give me a clue that I was going to need this. Thank you for your grace, and for the fact that you forgive me when I make you this mad.

10/23/2008 9:09:20 PM by Michael Lane, Executive Director, Delve Christian Ministries

Arsin,

Anger aside, revenge is not the issue. "Vengence is mine, says the Lord. I will repay." Ephesians 5:11-14 says, "Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. For it is shameful what the disobedient do in secret. But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, for it is light that makes everything visible." These are the evil days Jesus warned us of. Pay close attention to everything the Holy Spirit impresses upon you now. The money will be restored. Stay focused. Keep praising, giving and serving. God is faithful. He will always give you more than enough to show the world His faithfulness. Keeping you in my prayers.

10/23/2008 9:39:22 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

Thanks, Mrs. Piggy. I'm beginning to feel more peace about it as I struggle to let it go. This forgiveness thing really does work when you use it! Thanks for your prayers.

10/23/2008 9:56:57 PM by Michael Lane, Executive Director, Delve Christian Ministries

It can be a struggle, but then anything worth having will be. We, as humans tend to think, "I'll forgive, but I won't forget." That's not true. When we really forgive, we forget. Nobody remembers EVERY hurt and/or dissappointment they've ever experienced, right?

I woke up with these words in my spirit this morning: "If God be for us, who can stand against us?"

Of course this is from Romans 8:31. Since I have not read those words in a while, I know it was the Holy Spirit doing as the Bible said He would: bring the Word of God back to me.

10/24/2008 8:36:28 AM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

Hi my name is Stkitts. Please Pray for me i am having a hardtime each day i have lost my son 2007 and i don''t know what to do please me each day i will cry and and cry thats all i can do, i go to Court every other Month and see the killer in the box looking at then asking my why son he was only 11 years old what could he have possible do to them,they saw him there with other kids there. I know god say to forgive and am trying so hard to forgive then but it hurt so much all my life my family don''t care about me and sitll don't most of all my mom who soposely should be here for me is not i all way beleive in god and still do, i just need someone to be there for me when they have little time. I have a husband but he is not living me i wish he was here but you can't force any one to be if they don't want to be here Please help me its feel like i don't want to here any more.God please me me as i pray to you each and everyday, morning, and night that it for know. thank Sign stkitts

11/25/2008 1:49:59 PM by Stkitts, Member of Delve into Jesus since 11/25/2008

Hi my name is Stkitts. Please Pray for me i am having a hardtime each day i have lost my son 2007 and i don''t know what to do please me each day i will cry and and cry thats all i can do, i go to Court every other Month and see the killer in the box looking at then asking my why son he was only 11 years old what could he have possible do to them,they saw him there with other kids there. I know god say to forgive and am trying so hard to forgive then but it hurt so much all my life my family don''t care about me and sitll don't most of all my mom who soposely should be here for me is not i all way beleive in god and still do, i just need someone to be there for me when they have little time. I have a husband but he is not living me i wish he was here but you can't force any one to be if they don't want to be here Please help me its feel like i don't want to here any more.God please me me as i pray to you each and everyday, morning, and night that it for know. thank Sign stkitts

11/25/2008 1:50:04 PM by Stkitts, Member of Delve into Jesus since 11/25/2008

Sister Stkitts,

Jesus is with you every minute of every day. He sees your pain and understands. He was nailed to a cross, pierced in His side, ridiculed and spat upon and He said, "Forgive them Father, because they don't know what they are doing". Please know that the man who killed your son didn't know what he was doing. He was decieved by the enemy, satan. I will pray that God heals your heart so that you may forgive and be forgiven. Pain blinds us to the truth. It takes time to heal from this sort of pain. But, God is able to heal you immediately.

11/25/2008 6:59:34 PM by mrspiggy, Member of Delve into Jesus since 1/18/2008

Hi Stkitts - I can't help thinking your son would not want your life to be miserable for another moment, much less be destroyed by this. There is life in forgiveness and that could be a beautiful tribute to your son. You've made the decision to be like God and forgive others; keep asking God to grant you the ability to forgive you will be given the peace you need. I'm sorry this tragedy is on you but I hope you feel comfort in knowing this pain can bring you closer to God. He definitely knows what it feels like to have a son murdered. I will continue praying for you.

12/3/2008 6:28:26 PM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

I have just gone through a major upheaval in my life. There is so much emotional collateral damage. I was engaged to be married; and the date was set for 05/08/10. I found out that my fiance had been lying to me and cheating on me with not just one woman, but several different women in different states. We were in what I thought was a covenant relationship and approaching our life together from a Christ-focused perspective. We were celibate throughout the course of our relationship. So this has devastated me.

The most challenging part is all of the continual lying - even after being caught. His response was "I swear to you, it's not what it looks like." I am repulsed.

I hate what he has done to me. But I do not hate him. He had met my grandmother and parents to ask for their blessing for my hand in marriage. I thought that he was a man who did not want to break God's heart. Hence he would not intentionally hurt my heart.

Our last conversation was about a month ago. I broke off the engagement and told him that I no longer wished to communicate with him. As long as he continued to attempt to uphold these lies, there was nothing for us to discuss. I finally had to hang up on him because I just could not bear listening to additional lies.

Since then, he has emailed, sent instant messages, text messages, and called my office. I have replied to nothing. There is nothing that I can say - the pain, the wound is so deep. I asked myself, 'what did I do to this man to make him hate me so much that he would repeatedly betray me, over and over again?"

His emailed me last week, the day before his birthday. In his note, he apologized. He said he was sorry for the way we ended and sorry that he hurt me. He asked for my forgiveness and said that if I could not forgive him now then hopefully, one day.

The thing is, I forgave him when I ended the relationship. I know that even in the kingdom of God, those we love can and will disappoint us. Infidelity happens. I understand. But forgiveness does not mean that the pain of this experience has gone away. I have gone through so many stages. Anger and questions about why? Anger and wanting him to suffer the way he made me suffer. But that is SO unhealthy. It was my flesh, screaming for vindication, for justice.

I have consoled myself in the knowledge, the fact that God delivered me from what would have been a very unhappy and unfruitful marriage. Additionally, I had some intuitions; and I prayed and asked the Lord to reveal to me the secret, hidden things. He did just that. I also know that it is a spiritual law that we reap what we sow. My forgiveness of my ex-fiance does not mean that he gets to walk off into the sunset, scott-free, and move on as though I never existed. But you know what? Part of me, the hurt part, still feels a little bit like he has done just that. Yet spiritually, I know this is not the case.

I woke up today and I was angry. My feelings were still hurt. I wondered, why am I feeling like this? I am moving on with my life, moving forward. But, honestly, the sadness, anger and hurt were so heavy, I cried. I don't want him back. I cannot be in a relationship with a man who refuses to honor his committment to God or to me. I think I ache for what I believed we had; I grieve for what should have been. Or, I'm just still grieving in general. I wonder, should I contact him? Speak to him about the pain he has put me through? But then I thought, no. He knows all of this. It won't matter anyway. It won't change anything. I have to let God heal me completely, in His time and in His way. But does this mean that I have not completely forgiven my ex-fiance? I do not want to hold on to negative emotions. It is not healthy. I ceased all communication with him because I thought it was the best way to move forward and not be lulled back into something unfruitful.

I am not disuaded from living for Christ and continuing to walk in covenant with Him. "Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him," Job 13:15.

Please keep me in prayer. I know that this experience is making me stronger. But I feel very weak right now. I want to make sure that I am on the right path of forgiveness. I hope that the pain that I feel does not mean that I have not forgiven my ex-fiance. I know that he has a good heart. But he fell short in this area. I fall short a lot; so I'm not trying to judge him. Again, the pain, the wound - it's just so deep.

Agape -
Ms. Ktony

6/10/2009 10:30:51 AM by ktony, Member of Delve into Jesus since 6/10/2009

I just joined this site and read post on forgiveness. I need to be here. Mine is a story of 'russian roullette' forgiveness.This is but one example of the struggle I am having to forgive now. I have a daughter who put my dog of 15yrs down and my 8yr old cat who had one little tiny kitten of 2 wks while in hospital last yr for heart attack, so she didn't have to feed them.Forged my name to documents and walked out with a puppy for her son.Her boyfriend helped. Over past few years this was one of her nicest acts of love. 4yrs ago, my grandson then 2yrs had black eye and told me graphic story how daddy bashed him when he tried to protect his mummy. Kirsty defended and still protects this man to this day, brainwashed Jacob to belive was dream. He moved them interstate last wk to take them out of my life as I call authourities when Jacob tells me other things. Or I witness them. Last wk I bought her car but wouldn't give it to me,I demanded keys, she threatened to get boyfriend to bash me. I lost 12 hrs that night, woke to busted nose, I don't remember night before. I always forgive her but this time i refuse. She takes it as weakness. I have troubled son, 25yrs, he abuses me verbally, yet i always forgive him, his wedding saturday, his new church told him not to invite me, I'm heartbroken. I love him so much. I prayed God send Tyson christian bride, and now I can't attend his special day. I prayed God speak to Tyson and help him, save him, open his eyes to truth, yet I know because I refused to forgive Kirsty, God cannot hear my prayers when I sin, yet if I forgive, I know Kirsty takes this as invitation to hurt me again. Tyson I think feels the same. I know I must forgive them, but can it just be between God and me, do they really need to know I forgive them.I'm very ill with number of illnesses, stroke last week, suffer chronic pain from staph infection in spine 10 yrs ago. emphasemia, heart problems,so weak in my legs and body, I'm fighting to survive as i am, I want the emotional abuse to just stop. How can all this happen when I spend my days in my bible, pray, seek God. I have been at war with all those who tell me they love me all my life and now it's coming from my own precious kids, it hurts so much. I really do wanto forgive, I just wanto keep it a secret so I can have a little rest.

2/3/2009 3:28:20 AM by Anniekktt, Member of Delve into Jesus since 2/2/2009

I just joined this site and read post on forgiveness. I need to be here. Mine is a story of 'russian roullette' forgiveness.This is but one example of the struggle I am having to forgive now. I have a daughter who put my dog of 15yrs down and my 8yr old cat who had one little tiny kitten of 2 wks while in hospital last yr for heart attack, so she didn't have to feed them.Forged my name to documents and walked out with a puppy for her son.Her boyfriend helped. Over past few years this was one of her nicest acts of love. 4yrs ago, my grandson then 2yrs had black eye and told me graphic story how daddy bashed him when he tried to protect his mummy. Kirsty defended and still protects this man to this day, brainwashed Jacob to belive was dream. He moved them interstate last wk to take them out of my life as I call authourities when Jacob tells me other things. Or I witness them. Last wk I bought her car but wouldn't give it to me,I demanded keys, she threatened to get boyfriend to bash me. I lost 12 hrs that night, woke to busted nose, I don't remember night before. I always forgive her but this time i refuse. She takes it as weakness. I have troubled son, 25yrs, he abuses me verbally, yet i always forgive him, his wedding saturday, his new church told him not to invite me, I'm heartbroken. I love him so much. I prayed God send Tyson christian bride, and now I can't attend his special day. I prayed God speak to Tyson and help him, save him, open his eyes to truth, yet I know because I refused to forgive Kirsty, God cannot hear my prayers when I sin, yet if I forgive, I know Kirsty takes this as invitation to hurt me again. Tyson I think feels the same. I know I must forgive them, but can it just be between God and me, do they really need to know I forgive them.I'm very ill with number of illnesses, stroke last week, suffer chronic pain from staph infection in spine 10 yrs ago. emphasemia, heart problems,so weak in my legs and body, I'm fighting to survive as i am, I want the emotional abuse to just stop. How can all this happen when I spend my days in my bible, pray, seek God. I have been at war with all those who tell me they love me all my life and now it's coming from my own precious kids, it hurts so much. I really do wanto forgive, I just wanto keep it a secret so I can have a little rest.

2/3/2009 3:28:28 AM by Anniekktt, Member of Delve into Jesus since 2/2/2009