Hi.
I was recently encouraged to get down on my knees, tell God that I had a wrong attitude and ask him to (again) come into my life.

I have done. Sincerely. Not 24 hours a day, not even five times a day for the last week, but I have done.

Nothing has happened.

There could be several reasons ...

1. There is no God. This will be denied strenuously by all on the forum of course.

2. God is too busy to listen at this time. That would mean he is not omnipotent / omniscient ... whatever they really mean.

3. God is not able to meet me ... (because I don't shape up somehow, but this is not theologically correct I gather)

4. Because I have not asked long enough or "properly".

... and many more I'm sure.

Does God require me to beg? If so for how long? I thought forgiveness and the "indwelling of the Holy Spirit" was a free gift. I will probably be advised to just believe that God has answered the prayer and to live my life trusting that this is the case. I also know that Christians are not supposed to rely on feelings.

However, nothing has changed in my life. There has been no practical effect after having prayed. I have not suddenly "seen the light". Basically I am still the same as I was before I prayed .. problems and all.

If I am NO different when God has answered my prayer to what I was BEFORE I prayed, then Christianity is either pointless, or a lie.

I am conscious that every time I come on this forum I moan and rail ... that must mean that I'm a moany person!! Sorry.

Dave

8/19/2008 3:33:49 AM by davec, Member of Delve into Jesus since 10/9/2007

Dave,

I'm so glad you prayed! The answer to your dilemma is clear to me since I've been through the same thing. Its number 5: God heard you and is doing what you asked. The fact that you don't see it yet does not mean that it's not happening. I always assumed that when we asked to be saved or we ask the Holy Spirit to come into our lives, it would be like "Bam - here you go." I assumed this because I had heard so many amazing stories of nearly instant transformation. I knew a man who had been an alcoholic for decades who prayed for salvation and stopped drinking the next day. Pretty dramatic stuff!

So, like you, I was disappointed when after I prayed, nothing much seemed to happen. I had been completely God-less for a few years. I had not been to church in half a decade. I was not praying and I was not reading my Bible. I basically wanted nothing to do with God. I expected that after I prayed, I would be "on fire for God." I expected an instant, radical transformation. It didn't happen.

But how far I've come since then, however slowly! Last night I was reading Romans and listening to the Newsboys version of "In Christ Alone" (why I was doing to both at the same time is another story.) I read these words, "No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."At the same time, I heard the singer proclaim, "No pow'r of hell, no scheme of man, Can ever pluck me from His hand; Till He returns or calls me home-Here in the pow'r of Christ I'll stand."

I became so overwhelmed with love and gratitude that I it almost brought me to tears. It made me incredibly emotional (and I am NOT an emotional guy). I remember thinking, "There's the fire for God!" But it took a long, long time to get there.

If you will bear with me for a quick trip to the past, I will share a small piece of my own story with you. If I had a time machine, I would go back seven years and tell myself as I am about to tell you, to be patient, remain faithful and watch for the important clues along the way.

The journey God led me on after I prayed makes sense in hindsight, but I was frustrated for a long time that God didn't seem to be doing anything. I kept going to Church, but didn't really feel into it. At some point, I started watching my language. Months later, I took inventory of my DVD collection and got rid of some of the R-Rated junk. I started listening to more and more Christian music. I started writing music and participating in the worship music at church. I started tithing. I got very selective about what I would and would not watch on television and at the movie theater. I began getting very uncomfortable whenever I would see scantily clad women on TV or in magazine or when people would use foul language in public. I no longer found rude, vulgar jokes funny - they were just offensive. All of this took about three or four years!

At least three things were at work during this time, and these might be the key for you as they were for me. First, I was hanging around with Christians almost all the time and their influence rubbed off on me over time. Second, I started reading more and more. I read a few books that just rocked my world. They were, "Loving God", "Mere Christianity" and "Wild at Heart". Finally, and most importantly, the Holy Spirit was convicting me the entire time.

This is the most common way God both talks to us and changes us. Typically, it's indistinguishable from your conscience. I heard a voice telling me at intervals, "maybe you need to make a change here" or "maybe it's time you stopped doing that." I know now that it was God "changing" me.

So where does leave you?

God will change you as you've asked. He will do the work and He will take on the responsibility to see it through to completion. Completely remove from yourself the burden and responsibility of doing this alone. Be convinced that God is changing you right now. You don't need to "do" anything in a pro-active sense, but you do need to remove all resistance and be open to letting God lead you.

The only thing you need to do is listen and respond. Sometime this week or next, you may hear God tell you, "Dave, it's time to let that go." As I said, it feels just like your good old conscience. Recognize this for what it is when it happens. When He speaks, reply "Ok God" and then give it a try. And I do mean "try". You may fail. You may not get it right the first time or even the hundredth time. The point is that you allow God to guide you and that you never stop listening and responding. He is the one doing the changing, so don't get frustrated with the pace or the rate of failure. All you are doing is getting out of the way, literally and metaphorically so that He can do his thing. If you resist Him, He will keep working anyway but it will get slow and perhaps more painful.

If you want to be proactive, there are certainly things you can do to move along in the right direction and get your mind and heart in a place where they are more receptive to God.

1. Hang out with Christians as much as possible and attend Sunday services regularly. I cannot overemphasize how important this is. Nothing did more to get me on the right track than this.

2. Read some good books.

3. Put at least one Christian album in your CD collection or on your IPod. Start with that. Whatever your taste, we can probably find
you one band you will like.

4. Keep visiting us here. Read the devotionals and reflections. Share your victories and failures with us. Tell us when you're frustrated and let us encourage you. Keep asking us questions. I never, ever get frustrated with your questions so long as you accept that every now and then the answer is either "I don't know", or "because God said so." Hopefully that will not be too often.
I am not saying you must do these things. God will direct you and guide you, so the only thing you "must" do is listen to his voice and remain open to His guidance. All I am saying is that these might help.

I deliberately left off the two most important ones - prayer and reading your Bible. I did this because, honestly, these are very hard to do until you find the passion for God. When you're not really into it, they feel empty and pointless and you can just end up feeling frustrated. Try to do these, but if you're not feeling it, don't push too hard. The desire for these will come.

We are all praying for you Dave! We love you and we are here for you, no matter what you need.

The most important thing I can leave you with is this. God is changing you right now. He will never stop until He is done. I believe you will start to see the fruit very soon, so please don't be disappointed if the fruit does not appear overnight.

8/19/2008 8:05:01 AM by Michael Lane, Executive Director, Delve Christian Ministries

Dave,
I hope you take to heart the widsom and testimony from Arsindelve!
As I was reading your message from 'Answer?' A Scripture came to my mind. I pray it sinks in.
"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths."
Proverbs 3:5-6
I highly recommend reading the Chapters of "JOHN" in the Bible.
(It is in the New Testiment part.)
Dave, be patient. God is always right on time!
I will be praying for you.

8/19/2008 2:34:09 PM by Ignited~Faith, Member of Delve into Jesus since 2/20/2008

Thanks for the reply Arsin.

I don't feel any passion AT ALL for God. I don't even feel an attraction to God.

I can see no future for me as a Christian .. really I can't. I cannot see a time when anything would be "better".

I am going to un-subscribe to the forum, since all I ever do is moan, carp and be negative.

If there is a God, then I really feel, again, that God has let me down, that he doesn't care. One can only bash one's head against a brick wall for so long before the cranium caves in!!

Sorry.

Thanks for your interest over the months ( let's be honest, it's something other than love)

Dave

8/19/2008 2:41:26 PM by davec, Member of Delve into Jesus since 10/9/2007

DaveC!

I was glad to see you would share your struggles with us but sad to see you seem reluctant to do so now. I hope you know you are not alone in your quest - there are many of us who can completely relate to your saga. I have faught with this issue for years. Arsindelve is spot-on in everything he wrote to you. One of his statements that really caught my attention was something you also referenced in your last post; he wrote:

We are all praying for you Dave! We love you and we are here for you, no matter what you need.

We definitely do care for you and desire to see success for you. To me that is proof of God's existence - where else could that concern and compassion come from? Especially when it is exhibited by guys whose pasts may be characterized by difficulties experiencing and expressing emotions. Even though prior to reading your post I was deep in one of those lost, empty "where is God" jags my self, I can't help feeling hope and awe for what lies ahead of you. God will do the work, you just have to continue seeking.

I wish we all could experience that instantaneous BAM! of spirituality; that type we may have been led to believe is delivered to all. However, God is God and may have designed different paths for some of us. We can't demand He fulfill all promises on our schedule. Despite all your "moaning and carping" Dave, you are a fighter - you have been persevering for years. I can't fathom you would give up now. You've previously stated that you've been disillusioned with Christianity yet remain totally committed. I hope you won't feel disappointment much longer, but for now, there is something spectacular in what you had been expressing - you had been willing to hang on no matter what. Any spiritual giant could tuff-it-out while seeing God at work in their life. But, only the most rugged would hang on when (perceivably) not getting anything in return. Your "passion" for God may be seen in the long, painful searching you've done. God must appreciate your resolve and He is hanging on to you too.

I can dis my own faith to keep pace with your negativity but, there may be a plus side to surviving all the doubting and having to hang on through what we perceive as a long wait for answers from God. James 1:2-4 tells us that the testing of our faith eventually makes us complete. Faith that is based only on an emotional high during an uplifting moment may not be as valuable or beautiful to God. However, God is building a slow faith in you that cannot be shaken - a relationship with Him that has been tested by long silence, lack of answers and no movement. Sure, we all want to hear God's voice directly answering our prayers and feel His hand directing our lives. I believe all that will come to you in time. However, for now I wonder if God is thinking something like "Dave, My testing of your faith HAS developed perseverance and perseverance will lead you to lack nothing. Well done my good and faithful servant, Dave!"

I'm sorry you feel let down and hurt, although I am confident there is an unknown purpose to your struggle. I know God loves you - because His love is expressed through us. I am motivated to continue praying for your success and fully expect to hear some good news from you at some point in the future. Jesus has already won this battle for you - just hang on!

8/19/2008 5:29:04 PM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

Dave,

I stand by what I said - we love you, we will pray for you, and we will always be here to help you in any way we can. God has not and will not give up on you. Neither will we. I hope that you will return soon.

8/19/2008 6:19:53 PM by Michael Lane, Executive Director, Delve Christian Ministries

Like Dave I too have been struggling with God and what he means and what I am supposed to do. I took God into my life at a younger and much more accepting age - in the last 20 years he has been absent from my life - certainly at my request not his lack of trying. I am struggling to understand how God can make my life better and if I am deserving of such acceptance, love and forgiveness. I have done some pretty horrible things in my adult life and am more than ashamed to admit such.

Recently a colleague of mine asked me if I would share my walk with the Lord with him and that he would be glad to share his with me. It took me only a few minutes before I thought "Walk with the Lord? I haven't done that in ages!" And then it hit me - maybe thats what is missing in life. I have had a hole in me for many many years.

I appreciate your website and look forward to reading the devotionals and such. Thanks so much for the insight and the posting to Dave - turns out it was what I needed!

9/7/2008 3:32:59 AM by piper911, Member of Delve into Jesus since 9/7/2008

Hi Piper911, (nice to meet you!)
Every follower of Christ has a sinful past.
(That's why everyone needs Jesus!)
"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."
1 Timothy 1:15

"For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me;
my strength was sapped as in the heat of summer. Selah
Then I acknowledged my sin to you and did not cover up my iniquity.
I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD "
and you forgave the guilt of my sin. Selah."
Psalm 32:4-5

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
1 John 1:9

The thing that took me a while to figure out,
once I confessed my sins, I needed to STOP sinning,
and follow the Lord. When that happened, everything
in my life started to make sense!
Piper911, I will be praying for you!

9/7/2008 3:52:51 PM by Ignited~Faith, Member of Delve into Jesus since 2/20/2008

Thank you for your prayers for me. There are times in my life when I have asked why has God let me down? Why is he not here for me and what did I do to deserve whatever is wrong in my life or wrong with me? Apparently I have incredible trust issues and need to work through those - but in the mean time how do I let God know that I am trying to trust him and to please not give up on me yet?

9/7/2008 4:10:24 PM by piper911, Member of Delve into Jesus since 9/7/2008

Piper911

I want to welcome you to Delve into Jesus. It's great to have you here, and I'm very glad that you choose to join this discussion.

God will never give up on you. He wants you to be in a relationship with Him more than He wants anything else for you and from you. He will pursue that relationship for as long as you leave even the door open even the smallest crack. As the old saying goes, you will find that those times when it felt like God let you down, it was those times that you were trying to do it your way or your own terms rather than giving yourself fully to Him. When you have surrendered completely, that is when you will find the greatest peace, even when life comes at you with both barrels.

Community and friendship is a large part of maturing in our Christian faith, and so I hope you will keep visiting us often. Please never hesitate to let us know if there is anything we can do to help. If you need some words of encouragement, a shoulder to lean on, or someone to pray with you, let us know here in the discussion area, and you will find many people jumping at the opportunity to be with you.

Again, welcome, and God Bless!

9/7/2008 11:01:03 PM by Michael Lane, Executive Director, Delve Christian Ministries

Thank you again - I will certainly take you up on that offer.

9/7/2008 11:54:53 PM by piper911, Member of Delve into Jesus since 9/7/2008

Hi Piper911,

It's exciting to read your words - God is working in you! Perhaps you'd like Him to show up in a bigger, more definite way - but, He is there! With all the pleasures in life to distract us, the natural man may not be inclined to slow down enough to think of God, much less want God the way you are saying you do. God is the one stirring your desire. He may have paired you with that colleague who wants to discuss your Christian walk. He is likely to have led you to a website where other people care about you and can completely identify with your situation. God is seeking you and will smile on you for diligently seeking Him!

Much joy and peace awaits your discovery; I will be praying for you!

9/8/2008 9:32:04 AM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

Dear Piper911,
I found an article that I think will interest you.
God bless and direct your path.
(Many are praying for you.)

(Jesus said;)
"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly"
John 10:10

"Asking God the hard questions"
Please check out:

http://powertochange.com/changed/amontgomery/

9/9/2008 1:39:51 PM by Ignited~Faith, Member of Delve into Jesus since 2/20/2008

I need some help please. I don't understand why God has brought this colleague into my personal life and what I am supposed to be doing about him. I feel like he thinks I am "broken" and he is making it his mission in life to "fix me". I am struggling with accepting God into my life and give it completely over to him. I don't trust easy and I just don't understand what I am doing here and how to trust in God that he has a plan. Did God bring this person into my life to push me and make me think about my life and the lack of committment I have shown to God? Any ideas?

9/9/2008 4:12:59 PM by piper911, Member of Delve into Jesus since 9/7/2008

Piper911,
It sounds like your Colleague really cares about God and
that he really cares about you too!
People in life may have hurt you in the past...
(Sadly, not everyone can be trusted.)
But God can forever be trusted.
He made you, and He knows Everything about you!
He knows you better than you know yourself!
I pray that you will seek the Lord with your whole heart.
Here is a Psalm for you.
It may help you see the truth.

(Psalm 139)
"O LORD, You have searched me and known me.
You know when I sit down and when I rise up;
You understand my thought from afar.
You scrutinize my path and my lying down,
And are intimately acquainted with all my ways.
Even before there is a word on my tongue,
Behold, O LORD, You know it all.
You have enclosed me behind and before,
And laid Your hand upon me.
Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
It is too high, I cannot attain to it.
Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
If I ascend to heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.
If I take the wings of the dawn,
If I dwell in the remotest part of the sea,
Even there Your hand will lead me,
And Your right hand will lay hold of me.
If I say, "Surely the darkness will overwhelm me,
And the light around me will be night,"
Even the darkness is not dark to You,
And the night is as bright as the day
Darkness and light are alike to You.
For You formed my inward parts;
You wove me in my mother's womb.
I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Wonderful are Your works,
And my soul knows it very well.
My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth;
Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.
How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!
If I should count them, they would outnumber the sand
When I awake, I am still with You...
...Search me, O God, and know my heart;
Try me and know my anxious thoughts;
And see if there be any hurtful way in me,
And lead me in the everlasting way."
Psalm 139:1-18; 23-24

9/9/2008 10:52:35 PM by Ignited~Faith, Member of Delve into Jesus since 2/20/2008

I am having a hard time understanding why God - who knows me better than I know myself and made me - is so trusting and loving and giving. If he made me then he must surely understand and know that I am not worthy of the kind of scarifice He made. How do I trust that? How do I change my thinking and just accept it?

9/10/2008 12:45:10 AM by piper911, Member of Delve into Jesus since 9/7/2008

Piper911,
You are right. You are not worthy. No one is.
(The Bible tells us;)

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"
Romans 3:23
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"
Romans 3:10

Yet, God loves us.
So much that He sent His Son Jesus (who never sinned)
to die on the cross for us undeserving sinners.
Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Romans 6:23

These Scriptures are true.
Ask God to help you believe and accept what Jesus has done
for you. Then stop sinning, and start following Jesus!

Please if you can, read the Chapters on "JOHN" in the Bible.
You will be blessed.
(I will be praying for you.)

9/10/2008 3:00:21 PM by Ignited~Faith, Member of Delve into Jesus since 2/20/2008

Hey Piper911 - What God is offering us is so beautiful; He wants us to have it even though we clearly don't deserve it! You asked "How do I change my thinking and just accept it?" God knows we are not worthy and have difficulties with our thinking and accepting His grace - that is why he sends the Holy Spirit. Ask for help from the Holy Spirit to grow as a Christian, and then commit to responding to how you are being led. You will find God's guidance while praying, studying the Bible and being engaged in Christian thought (conversations with friends, sermons, literature, music, etc.) Your thinking will change, you will learn to trust and you will feel peace because God is really much better at directing or lives than we, on our own, could ever be.

You identify trust as a big concern for you - obviously you have some valid reasons to be protective of your self. God is offering to resolve those trust issues for you and heal you of past wounds. Learning to trust God can be a fun ride - we go where He leads and feel secure that through all the twists and loops all will work out for the best. You have an amazing future ahead of you!

9/10/2008 4:35:08 PM by Ryan, Member of Delve into Jesus since 12/30/2007

Piper 911, the words of a song, " You took my place upon the cross, a cross that i deserved, You looked ay me with love in Your heart, and forgave" that's amazing, don't waste it, REAL love comes along once in your life, they say, in this case TRUE, HIS LOVE CAME ONCE FOR ALL, i repeat, once for all, that's you to, He loves you no matter what, He made you in His image, He has a purpose and a plan for your life, remember there is someone else that doesn't want you to walk in it, don't worry GOD knows none of us are perfect, i thank God for the NT, because i wouldn't have made it far at all in the OT, I may be wrong but FORGIVE yourself, then you can be free to walk in all He has for you, you are loved, Hebrews 5;13. God bless

9/19/2008 2:36:51 AM by mammak, Member of Delve into Jesus since 9/3/2008